# Transcript: The future of (non)work

## Video 2

https://vimeo.com/804924357/fcdccca5e5

## Description

Who is Filip Dřímalka?



Filip Dřímalka is a leading expert on digital trends and their implementation in companies. He transforms his know-how in digitalization and innovation into strategic consulting for company leadership and successful development programs. He founded the Digiskills.cz project, which develops digital skills for tens of thousands of employees in the CEE region, and the Digitask.cz project – the first marketplace for digital innovations and experts in the Czech Republic.



He is the author of many innovations that today serve as the foundation for development programs focused on future competencies. He wrote the first Czech book on digital transformation, HOT: How to succeed in the digital world, hosts the podcast with innovators HOTCAST, and is a winner of the LIGS Awards for innovative projects in adult education.

## Transcript

**[00:00:00]** Welcome to everyone watching. Hi, hi Pepa, you're already here with us.

**[00:00:09]** To those watching here on Zoom, on the way to work, from work,

**[00:00:13]** dropping kids off at daycare, and various other moments before and after meetings.

**[00:00:18]** Today it should be about continuing from Brain and Breakfast,

**[00:00:24]** which we had on the 16th, I think it was, I remember it was a week ago,

**[00:00:29]** with Filip, it was about the future of non-work, and we’d like to

**[00:00:34]** look at this topic from several different perspectives.

**[00:00:38]** The invitation to discuss was accepted by Ján Košturek, who is here with me,

**[00:00:44]** of course Filip is here, Honza Týl is here. Honza, for those who don't know him,

**[00:00:55]** and so on. That means he is very far ahead in this field.

**[00:01:01]** Likewise, Eva Nečasová, Eva focuses on AI for Children,

**[00:01:06]** she is the founder of this initiative here. Then there is Pepa Holý.

**[00:01:12]** Pepa, I don’t see you yet, but Pepa is someone who works with social networks

**[00:01:18]** and everything related to this topic. Hi Pepa, hey.

**[00:01:23]** Things that might sometimes scare us a bit, and I would actually

**[00:01:30]** like to start by hearing what you think

**[00:01:35]** about the future of non-work, to set the context a bit.

**[00:01:40]** Otherwise, anyone who wants to join the discussion, we will first go through

**[00:01:45]** a round with the people I invited, and then anyone who wants to join

**[00:01:49]** and ask something, just raise your hand, we will give you the microphone here,

**[00:01:53]** and if you raise your virtual hand, I will call on you.

**[00:01:57]** And that’s how the discussion will go. The expected length is about an hour and fifteen minutes,

**[00:02:01]** so if we go longer, I think people will start

**[00:02:06]** to disconnect around nine o’clock, so we’ll see who stays.

**[00:02:09]** Some of us have until nine-thirty to really

**[00:02:13]** talk about these things in more depth.

**[00:02:15]** So this is the plan for the next hour and a half.

**[00:02:17]** And I don’t want to call on anyone, Honza, Eva, Pepa or Ján, so try,

**[00:02:23]** whoever wants to start, just take the floor and go ahead,

**[00:02:27]** what work will look like in a few years and whether pension adjustments are even a topic

**[00:02:33]** or not.

**[00:02:35]** Good day everyone. Whenever there are meetings and I lead some stand-ups

**[00:02:47]** or something and no one speaks up, someone always does.

**[00:02:51]** Good morning. You asked how work will look.

**[00:02:56]** I hope we will still enjoy work and that AI won’t take it away from us.

**[00:03:03]** I think AI won’t take it away like other technologies didn’t,

**[00:03:07]** but it does have, when we talk about artificial intelligence,

**[00:03:11]** different aspects that we need to discuss.

**[00:03:14]** What Microsoft just did with Bing is already starting to show that

**[00:03:18]** and so on. But what work will look like, I think,

**[00:03:22]** it will still be about us being creative, about us having

**[00:03:27]** our humanity there, so... Of course, certain layers

**[00:03:31]** of management in large corporations will probably disappear, those who just move and consolidate information

**[00:03:36]** and follow it in the management system.

**[00:03:40]** On the other hand, I don't think that we will have,

**[00:03:45]** or rather we probably will have AI psychotherapists, for example,

**[00:03:50]** but I don't think it will be safe for the humanity of 20-year-olds.

**[00:03:54]** So that's kind of my take on what work will look like.

**[00:03:57]** There will probably be new types of jobs. Twenty years ago, no one could imagine

**[00:04:01]** that something like a data pipeline optimization engineer would exist.

**[00:04:05]** Twenty years ago, the profession of web designer didn't exist

**[00:04:09]** and today they are in almost every agency and so on.

**[00:04:13]** There will be new professions, many will disappear, but that's the natural course

**[00:04:19]** of technological advances, innovations, paradigm shifts, and so on.

**[00:04:28]** So hand the word to someone, or Honza is taking a breath. Honza, go ahead.

**[00:04:32]** Me?

**[00:04:33]** Honza.

**[00:04:34]** Alright. Well, I also don't think that with the arrival of artificial intelligence

**[00:04:39]** it means that everyone in the leagues will end up without work, but at the same time there are many

**[00:04:43]** different challenges we will have to face.

**[00:04:46]** I wholeheartedly try to fight for technology to work so that

**[00:04:50]** it pushes us in the leagues forward, so it becomes something like tutors,

**[00:04:56]** coaches, mentors and helps increase our human potential

**[00:04:59]** and acts as a partner to what we already manage today.

**[00:05:03]** However, it is clear that, for example, when something appears

**[00:05:07]** that generates images and portraits so well that it looks just like

**[00:05:10]** when some graphic designers do it, their position is a bit threatened.

**[00:05:14]** There is an increasing influx of automation, as Filip often says,

**[00:05:18]** so many things that used to take a long time are now done

**[00:05:20]** in a shorter way. And what I find great about the future is that

**[00:05:26]** I've heard so many predictions about what will happen in the future and then,

**[00:05:29]** when I looked at how it actually happened, I always felt

**[00:05:31]** a great respect for saying what will happen in the future,

**[00:05:34]** because as experts we are always asked to say

**[00:05:37]** how it will really be, and the black, unpredictable things

**[00:05:41]** appear so often that I have great humility about the future,

**[00:05:44]** about what can or cannot happen. So for me, it's like this,

**[00:05:49]** that artificial intelligence thanks to chat GPT. Yesterday I had a meeting

**[00:05:52]** with Řigiter and I learned that about 90% of them already use chat GPT

**[00:05:55]** Practically on a daily basis, so the engagement from that,

**[00:06:00]** how quickly it changes, seems huge to me. And for me, it's a big challenge

**[00:06:06]** and opportunity, like when a new industrial revolution comes,

**[00:06:09]** we shouldn't be afraid of it and should look for how it can positively

**[00:06:12]** influence our lives and rather ride that trend than ride

**[00:06:15]** a wave of fear. That's kind of my message and perspective.

**[00:06:19]** Maybe I'll ask, because yesterday we had an interesting discussion

**[00:06:23]** here with Martin, who is close by, about how Martin has people fill out an Excel spreadsheet

**[00:06:27]** in the entrance interview and gives them a simple task,

**[00:06:33]** to basically outline the table, and people actually don't know how to do it.

**[00:06:38]** And just glancing at Eva now, we actually got into education

**[00:06:45]** and how the huge gap is starting to open up. So Eva, how do you and AI approach children and in general,

**[00:06:49]** how should we approach this? Maybe AI for seniors too, and maybe AI for others,

**[00:06:56]** like we are currently very much about AI for everyone, but of course our primary

**[00:07:03]** focus is on schools. From what I see, when I go to train teachers,

**[00:07:08]** or principals, or children, teachers often ask me,

**[00:07:14]** will AI replace us? I found an interesting source for this, an article by Mr. Brdička,

**[00:07:19]** who read the future of education according to Google, it's about a 300-page report,

**[00:07:26]** we took his article, we have it on our website, and from this perspective,

**[00:07:31]** there are charts showing in which areas AI can replace teachers' work,

**[00:07:36]** and it really reflects the trend I feel,

**[00:07:41]** which is that in things, and I'm not saying anything new,

**[00:07:46]** but specifically in things like lesson preparation

**[00:07:50]** or routine administrative tasks,

**[00:07:55]** AI can really help significantly, and I think it really is happening.

**[00:07:59]** We recently published a GPT guide for teachers, which we adapted

**[00:08:03]** from abroad, and more great materials are starting to emerge,

**[00:08:07]** which I release every day, and for me the trend

**[00:08:11]** is very much about using our strengths,

**[00:08:16]** meaning teachers understanding each other, being there for the children and not being overloaded

**[00:08:21]** with administration like now, because I see that as a huge problem,

**[00:08:27]** teachers have trouble collecting and processing data,

**[00:08:31]** they are burdened with administration, but if they start using

**[00:08:35]** these tools, it can really free their hands so they can be there

**[00:08:38]** with the children and be guides, the choreographers of education,

**[00:08:42]** and that's kind of my goal and main message

**[00:08:46]** that I try to convey.

**[00:08:49]** Great, thank you. That's definitely an interesting start.

**[00:08:52]** I think that's it. What about you, Jana?

**[00:08:58]** I think the future doesn't just happen.

**[00:09:01]** The future doesn't just happen; we create it through some activity

**[00:09:09]** or inactivity, meaning how we approach it.

**[00:09:13]** When we analyze work today, and it's not just manual laborers

**[00:09:17]** and some manual workers, but also doctors, developers,

**[00:09:21]** various groups of people, the work worthy of a human

**[00:09:26]** is about 30-40%. The rest are routine tasks,

**[00:09:30]** wasteful activities that a person shouldn't even have to do.

**[00:09:34]** So, in my opinion, these machines, robots, and artificial intelligence

**[00:09:38]** will free us from these tasks,

**[00:09:42]** and we will be able to do what humans are meant to do.

**[00:09:46]** This liberation is one thing, those routine tasks.

**[00:09:49]** The other thing is that technology accelerates us,

**[00:09:53]** but that was already the case in the past when we did simulation experiments,

**[00:09:56]** we could simulate very quickly something that a person...

**[00:10:00]** would take a very long time to do alone. Today we have generative design and similar things,

**[00:10:05]** where the machine can combine and create something much faster

**[00:10:09]** than a person would. So the question is almost this: if the machine frees us,

**[00:10:16]** what will we do with the extra time? Will we still work more and want

**[00:10:21]** to be more famous, richer, or will we maybe focus more on ourselves

**[00:10:28]** and the people around us? Because I think that

**[00:10:32]** what is happening will harm a certain group of the population in the sense that

**[00:10:39]** not everyone will manage this transformation. We are talking about the Red Button group,

**[00:10:43]** who have somewhat different attitudes towards life and proactivity, but it's a group

**[00:10:49]** of people who won't be able to adapt so quickly, and all these transitional

**[00:10:53]** and transformative periods will cause suffering for certain groups of people, and these

**[00:11:00]** people will need help. These are the people who won't be able to adapt as quickly,

**[00:11:05]** and by the way, one number that worries me is that in the European Union,

**[00:11:10]** 25% of people in the European Union suffer from loneliness. And this is a topic

**[00:11:17]** that may need to be addressed for a long time.

**[00:11:24]** Thanks again.

**[00:11:27]** What about you, Lepet, you’re writing there, so...

**[00:11:29]** Well, I think, thank you very much for the insights. I think AI can help a lot with loneliness.

**[00:11:37]** And now we can talk about humanoids,

**[00:11:44]** meaning robots that look like people or dolls, which are used today in Japan,

**[00:11:47]** where loneliness is quite a big problem,

**[00:11:52]** or startups like Replica AI. I'm not addressing the negative impacts,

**[00:11:56]** like people falling in love with them, etc., but simply they will have someone to talk to.

**[00:12:01]** And I understand that sometimes it's easy to look at it from a certain perspective, but when it's a machine,

**[00:12:06]** let's talk as humans, but the fact is that only technology

**[00:12:11]** that we can scale can solve the big problems. So I see

**[00:12:16]** potential and I think there is a need to look a bit further and not just

**[00:12:22]** through today's lens, but really try to look at the future through the lens of the future.

**[00:12:26]** Although I understand Honza and his absolutely true statement that we need to have respect

**[00:12:34]** and humility towards the future, because the estimates simply don't come true and it's always

**[00:12:39]** easy to say someone was right only ex post. But I think,

**[00:12:44]** when we talk about education, yes, I just had a workshop yesterday

**[00:12:49]** with teachers from a university and we discussed that it would be good to create

**[00:12:53]** an AI policy for the whole school and leadership that approaches it, so not

**[00:12:57]** that they prefer not to talk about it so that no students find out.

**[00:13:01]** Which I thought was an interesting approach. But where

**[00:13:07]** I see huge potential is where there aren't that many teachers

**[00:13:11]** and where personalized education is needed,

**[00:13:14]** because AI can be a teacher and will be a teacher. That means,

**[00:13:18]** whether we talk about children, seniors, adults, today I have available

**[00:13:23]** a teacher who is still relatively general, but in a few years it will be able to adapt

**[00:13:30]** to my pace and help me learn pretty much anything,

**[00:13:34]** whether it's just in case education for the future

**[00:13:39]** or just in time because I need help with something. And I already have examples,

**[00:13:43]** including in the book, where in Africa it is starting to be used precisely for education,

**[00:13:50]** where there aren't many teachers, classes are large, and they have mobile phones,

**[00:13:56]** they have ChatGPT, which helps children work in groups,

**[00:14:01]** which is absolutely incredible. And precisely where the limitations are big,

**[00:14:05]** meaning there is no money, a shortage of teachers,

**[00:14:08]** doctors or anything else, we will see it have a huge impact.

**[00:14:12]** We live in such prosperity that we don't really feel it and we're not pressured

**[00:14:16]** to start using it. And we don't mind that there are 30 kids in a class,

**[00:14:21]** but where there are 120 kids, that pushes innovation. So I really believe

**[00:14:28]** that a certain intelligence can help education a lot,

**[00:14:33]** to learn anything. But I agree with Zenem, not everyone can handle it. I just,

**[00:14:39]** I just very correctly said that it's mainly about mindset and approach.

**[00:14:44]** Sometimes I hear that it's more for smart people who see it. On the contrary,

**[00:14:48]** I think it's for those who have a beginner's mindset,

**[00:14:51]** not afraid to try, because it's my intelligence, so the tools often

**[00:14:57]** just complete or improve what we can do. But then there's the other part,

**[00:15:03]** which is how to help others. And here I recommend an article by Sam Altman,

**[00:15:08]** CEO of OpenAI, and his Worst's Law to Everything, where he basically writes a proposal

**[00:15:15]** for how the future should deal with the fact that AI will generate many people

**[00:15:20]** who won't work as much or at all.

**[00:15:24]** And the proposed solutions exist, we just need to choose the right political representation,

**[00:15:29]** who will understand the problem and won't be afraid to open up these topics.

**[00:15:35]** So maybe we'll get back to unemployment later, but I think

**[00:15:38]** these are all interesting topics and we need to talk about them.

**[00:15:41]** I might try to take a step aside now, and I was really looking forward to it,

**[00:15:47]** so please allow me to do that now. And for me, and now I'm addressing you, Pepa,

**[00:15:53]** what we will actually learn is important. Because if we put different or the same terms

**[00:15:59]** into search engines in different worlds, the search engine just gives us

**[00:16:05]** different results. And I wonder who will decide

**[00:16:10]** what is actually the truth and what we should learn,

**[00:16:14]** when this is what we have here. And I'm kind of looking at you, Pepa,

**[00:16:19]** try to tell me how you see this, that there is some kind of ultimate GPT-3,

**[00:16:23]** which spreads everywhere, fed with what we or anyone else put in.

**[00:16:28]** And as we saw with COVID and everywhere else, one expert says this, another says that,

**[00:16:34]** a third says something else, a fourth says something different, so what will we actually learn,

**[00:16:37]** and who will learn what?

**[00:16:41]** That's a good question. I would like to go back to what Filip said,

**[00:16:44]** responding to Sam Altman. It would be good to look at these technologies

**[00:16:49]** with a bit more distance, because what Sam Altman and the whole transhumanist

**[00:16:56]** and longtermist clique in Silicon Valley are pushing is motivated by

**[00:17:02]** the pursuit of maximum profit, maximum efficiency, and maximum automation.

**[00:17:08]** Yes, that's basically their mindset. They live in a world

**[00:17:14]** where everything is personalized, or they want to live in such a world. Everything is personalized,

**[00:17:19]** everything is automated. Amazon predicts what I want to buy tomorrow,

**[00:17:23]** so it sends it to me just in case, and if it happens to be wrong, it will include

**[00:17:27]** the cost of returning the package in the price of the products at that scale.

**[00:17:31]** They are motivated by those books that are 30 or 40 years old. I don't feel that today

**[00:17:36]** we have a problem with needing technology that, and now I'm getting to what you said,

**[00:17:42]** because I started thinking about it this way, Jan, so I'm responding to the question,

**[00:17:48]** the question is whether humanity today needs technology

**[00:17:53]** that is very convincing, because that is its primary purpose,

**[00:17:58]** since the primary purpose of this technology is to pass the Turing test, meaning

**[00:18:01]** to be convincing enough. The Turing test is about letting a person interact with a machine

**[00:18:10]** and not realizing it's a machine. If the person thinks it's human,

**[00:18:15]** then the machine has passed the Turing test, because it is so-called human-like intelligence and speaks

**[00:18:19]** like a human. So the persuasiveness actually overrides how the technology is built.

**[00:18:23]** And now, if you want to deploy current GPT in schools or some teaching,

**[00:18:26]** I personally wouldn't recommend it, because no one will guarantee

**[00:18:53]** and there is no scheme, no mechanism to prove what the machine was trained on.

**[00:18:57]** The fact that the machine can pass medical master's exams somewhere in America

**[00:19:04]** is basically a public stunt, it's essentially a marketing event,

**[00:19:09]** because if you wanted to deploy such a robot today

**[00:19:15]** in medicine, in a highly regulated environment, you can't,

**[00:19:21]** because no one would take responsibility for it. And if no one takes responsibility,

**[00:19:24]** we are heading into a big problem. And this brings us to what it will teach us,

**[00:19:29]** it depends on what the machine is trained on, because they just took all the content

**[00:19:36]** from the internet, much of which is apparently still copyright protected,

**[00:19:40]** so there are still quite big legal battles ahead. Right now, we are all

**[00:19:45]** amazed at how it speaks today, it doesn't know what it is saying because it's all statistics,

**[00:19:49]** but we don't even know what it was trained on. And it's also made so that

**[00:19:53]** it's very easy to bypass controls and start pushing

**[00:19:59]** QAnon.

**[00:20:00]** racism, fascism, I don't know, gender bias,

**[00:20:05]** anything can be part of any cultural wars,

**[00:20:08]** or even go against our values.

**[00:20:11]** So if we wanted to deploy it in schools,

**[00:20:14]** first our school institutions

**[00:20:17]** and the entire teaching community would have to agree and take the school curricula

**[00:20:22]** and related literature and build their own on that technology,

**[00:20:26]** which will be appropriate for our education system. It is unacceptable

**[00:20:31]** for someone like Sam Altman and similar people from Silicon Valley

**[00:20:36]** to give us opaque algorithms for exercises on unclear data,

**[00:20:41]** and let them massively influence our children's minds.

**[00:20:44]** I'll stop here because this is getting quite dark again,

**[00:20:48]** and I hope this logical sequence,

**[00:20:51]** this causality makes sense in what I tried to say.

**[00:20:54]** Filip, go ahead.

**[00:21:25]** However, I don't think it's completely unsolvable.

**[00:21:28]** We need to create completely new transformers.

**[00:21:30]** Then, with Filip, through discussion-enhanced learning

**[00:21:33]** using human feedback, where a person retrains with just a few thousand examples,

**[00:21:37]** they can bend the ethical, moral, and various frameworks of transformers

**[00:21:41]** in the direction they need.

**[00:21:43]** So a person doesn't need huge mega resources,

**[00:21:46]** and that's one of many ways to adjust large transformers

**[00:21:49]** so that we have control.

**[00:21:51]** Another are methodological guidelines.

**[00:21:53]** For example, as Evička said,

**[00:21:55]** about how to work with the GPT chat.

**[00:21:57]** If we have good methodological guidelines and a specific exercise assigned,

**[00:22:00]** that can be very effective.

**[00:22:02]** We really focus on the methodology, for example when we do digihavl,

**[00:22:05]** digihavl sometimes invents something, some fake news.

**[00:22:08]** And we tell the kids in advance to question it

**[00:22:10]** and verify what it writes, whether it's true or not, from multiple sources.

**[00:22:13]** Learn critical thinking.

**[00:22:15]** So one thing is how it's structured.

**[00:22:17]** The other is that we can bend it in different ways.

**[00:22:19]** We created a Czech digihavl that responds similarly

**[00:22:22]** to how it was done in the Czech environment.

**[00:22:24]** And our long-term memory searches for memories there

**[00:22:26]** and bends it to the ethical framework we need.

**[00:22:29]** So there are multiple ways to approach it.

**[00:22:31]** Thank you.

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**[00:30:01]** Thank you.

**[00:30:03]** Thank you.

**[00:30:05]** Thank you.

**[00:30:07]** Thank you.

**[00:30:00]** I said yes, but teaching is not the same as teaching, right?

**[00:30:04]** If you use all these new principles to

**[00:30:07]** teach someone a language, it will be better.

**[00:30:10]** Yes, you can teach ten languages at once

**[00:30:14]** based on some meta-principle,

**[00:30:17]** which then uses these principles.

**[00:30:20]** Thanks for that, and if you're running somewhere, that's great,

**[00:30:24]** that you let us teach you.

**[00:30:28]** I just posted a link in the chat to an interesting TED Talk

**[00:30:32]** How Language Shapes the Way We Think.

**[00:30:35]** An extremely interesting talk about how,

**[00:30:39]** there are 7,000 languages and they really impact

**[00:30:43]** and I think learning a foreign language also means learning

**[00:30:46]** a bit of a foreign culture.

**[00:30:49]** I find that extremely interesting, and maybe on the contrary,

**[00:30:52]** we should learn more languages and fewer invoices

**[00:30:55]** and graphic stuff, I don't know, but I think it's important.

**[00:30:58]** I recommend that TED Talk.

**[00:31:01]** We also basically encountered this here,

**[00:31:04]** when I described

**[00:31:07]** how I will be cloned as a salesperson and have my digital twin

**[00:31:10]** and sell to all kinds of countries around the world,

**[00:31:13]** like suddenly, we realized

**[00:31:16]** that cultural context is very important

**[00:31:19]** and actually empathy and feeling.

**[00:31:22]** We also need to hear and understand each other.

**[00:31:25]** I would learn that, so I think it's really nice.

**[00:31:28]** Maybe now I'll get to the actual work.

**[00:31:35]** I feel like we said

**[00:31:38]** it's about freeing us from routine tasks,

**[00:31:42]** that it could help us.

**[00:31:45]** So what is a routine task for you?

**[00:31:48]** What would you like help with now,

**[00:31:51]** those of you here?

**[00:31:54]** I can just add to the question.

**[00:31:57]** I would leave out the word routine,

**[00:32:00]** because routine was a few years ago.

**[00:32:03]** Most of us have moved beyond automating routine work,

**[00:32:06]** or at least I hope most have.

**[00:32:09]** But let's rethink it as a foundation in today's world.

**[00:32:12]** So if I may, Honza, can I jump in a bit?

**[00:32:15]** That's totally fine. I just keep feeling,

**[00:32:18]** when I have routine tasks and I do them very often.

**[00:32:21]** So I'm still in the phase you might not be in anymore.

**[00:32:24]** I'll respond to what you just asked Filip,

**[00:32:27]** that yes, for example, I think

**[00:32:30]** that tasks I don't know how to do

**[00:32:33]** are routine, I don't enjoy them, and I canceled them out.

**[00:32:36]** Or I could afford to.

**[00:32:39]** I don't have a boss over me and I can fix it that way.

**[00:32:42]** But for example, I would expect that

**[00:32:45]** I always enjoyed working with a majority of people

**[00:32:48]** and now we can work with the whole world.

**[00:32:51]** That these technologies actually allow me to use

**[00:32:54]** global knowledge, to use something

**[00:32:57]** I didn't have access to before.

**[00:33:00]** To use the world's brain.

**[00:33:03]** And to use it very quickly, very efficiently.

**[00:33:06]** And actually the decisions

**[00:33:09]** about which direction it goes will be mine.

**[00:33:13]** But simply the combination, the gathering of these things and all that,

**[00:33:16]** I don't know if these are routine tasks,

**[00:33:19]** it's just something we simply didn't have before.

**[00:33:22]** No way to collaborate with brains from all over the world,

**[00:33:25]** today we have that possibility.

**[00:33:28]** It will be a revolution in schools, a revolution in innovation

**[00:33:31]** and actually in every job.

**[00:33:34]** But yes, it's an incredible enrichment of work

**[00:33:37]** and creative work, in my opinion.

**[00:33:40]** Honza's advantage in this world is

**[00:34:10]** that these worlds overlap a lot.

**[00:34:13]** And when we discussed it with my opponent and editor,

**[00:34:16]** who was on the side that it's the best,

**[00:34:19]** that it's the best, that it's the best,

**[00:34:22]** that it's the best, that it's the best,

**[00:34:25]** that it's the best, that it's the best,

**[00:34:28]** that it's the best, that it's the best,

**[00:34:31]** that it's the best, that it's the best,

**[00:34:34]** that it's the best, that it's the best,

**[00:34:37]** and when we discussed it with my opponent and editor,

**[00:34:40]** So we really found out that the world of business and work

**[00:34:43]** for those of us who can behave like creators,

**[00:34:46]** is extremely similar.

**[00:34:49]** Because just as I have multiple clients,

**[00:34:52]** a person at work has a supervisor.

**[00:34:55]** Just as I can define today,

**[00:34:58]** a person at work creates their own projects

**[00:35:01]** or should be creating them.

**[00:35:05]** But if someone accepts that they are a creator,

**[00:35:08]** then the world is really very interconnected.

**[00:35:11]** And as they say, in the past a person had one job for seven years,

**[00:35:14]** in the future they will have seven jobs at once.

**[00:35:17]** So these worlds will blend and mix.

**[00:35:20]** And I think that's the amazing thing about it,

**[00:35:23]** that when I was away recently, for the first time,

**[00:35:26]** I met so many people from corporate on my workation,

**[00:35:29]** who suddenly went away for two or three weeks,

**[00:35:32]** and what I never encountered before, so many people

**[00:35:35]** who are somewhere employed among digital nomads.

**[00:35:38]** So home office, remote work,

**[00:35:41]** all of this helps and enables

**[00:35:44]** people to create their own work system.

**[00:35:47]** And honestly, the system doesn't have to be big.

**[00:35:50]** It's about me saying stop,

**[00:35:53]** let's maybe manage this project a little differently.

**[00:35:56]** That means I am the leader or micro-leader,

**[00:35:59]** and because of that I can design the work according to myself.

**[00:36:03]** So that's what I find amazing about today's times.

**[00:36:29]** And if I get to choose, make me an assistant,

**[00:36:32]** who should have a salary of 15 thousand vs. make me a CEO,

**[00:36:35]** who should have a salary of 150 thousand,

**[00:36:38]** so what will push me more?

**[00:36:41]** Which of these tasks should I replace more?

**[00:36:44]** When for me they will be roughly equally difficult,

**[00:36:47]** like choosing between a salary of 15 thousand vs. make me a CEO,

**[00:36:50]** who should have a salary of 150 thousand,

**[00:36:53]** so what will push me more?

**[00:36:56]** Which of these tasks should I replace more?

**[00:36:59]** When for me they will be roughly equally difficult,

**[00:37:02]** like choosing between a salary of 150 thousand vs. make me a CEO,

**[00:37:05]** So what will push me more?

**[00:37:08]** Like which of these activities should I replace more?

**[00:37:11]** When they will be roughly equally difficult for me,

**[00:37:14]** like choosing a job with a 150k salary vs. make me a CEO,

**[00:37:17]** so what will push me more?

**[00:37:20]** When they will be roughly equally difficult for me,

**[00:37:23]** like choosing a job with a 150k salary vs. make me a CEO,

**[00:37:26]** so what will push me more?

**[00:37:50]** When they will be roughly equally difficult for me,

**[00:37:53]** like choosing a job with a 150k salary vs. make me a CEO,

**[00:37:56]** so what will push me more?

**[00:38:20]** When they will be roughly equally difficult for me,

**[00:38:23]** like choosing a job with a 150k salary vs. make me a CEO,

**[00:38:26]** so what will push me more?

**[00:38:50]** When they will be roughly equally difficult for me,

**[00:38:53]** like choosing a job with a 150k salary vs. make me a CEO,

**[00:38:56]** so what will push me more?

**[00:39:20]** When they will be roughly equally difficult for me,

**[00:39:23]** like choosing a job with a 150k salary vs. make me a CEO,

**[00:39:26]** so what will push me more?

**[00:39:50]** When they will be roughly equally difficult for me,

**[00:39:53]** like choosing a job with a 150k salary vs. make me a CEO,

**[00:39:56]** so what will push me more?

**[00:40:00]** The amount of information sources I simply need to follow,

**[00:40:04]** both for my work that supports me and for activism in the podcast.

**[00:40:09]** Then, you know, when the whole management, it was mentioned here, well,

**[00:40:16]** email is 20, the best email is still Gmail and it’s from 2004, so it’s 20 years old.

**[00:40:23]** I had a Gmail account in 2004, some American gave it to me,

**[00:40:27]** back then it was very new, so email basically hasn’t changed in 20 years.

**[00:40:31]** Like Superhuman, if you know it, it’s kind of a scan

**[00:40:37]** of one person with great performance who needs to pay $100 a month for email.

**[00:40:41]** So here I see huge potential, because it’s information technology,

**[00:40:51]** now if we step away from robotics, where factories already make cars,

**[00:40:56]** robots, you know, mostly, so here, this AI, these big language models,

**[00:41:02]** or the graphic ones, this is information technology and it can abstract from large amounts

**[00:41:07]** of data some patterns, pull something out of a large amount of data, that’s what it does,

**[00:41:12]** so it helps me manage complexity,

**[00:41:16]** but I have to say again for myself, as was already mentioned here, that I actually don’t trust

**[00:41:23]** what it tells me. And sometimes it’s really hard not to believe it, on a personal level,

**[00:41:28]** on the personal, on the level of perception of a person,

**[00:41:31]** which person technology says, yeah. So it's quite complicated to keep that distance

**[00:41:38]** and I would just say, and that was really 20 minutes ago, so maybe you don't remember,

**[00:41:44]** like introducing something into schools and teaching students, here you have teachers in quotes, who are supposed to help you,

**[00:41:50]** but don't trust them at all, that seems to me like some disruption of the basic institution,

**[00:41:56]** some functioning of that institution, because in school it should be about trust.

**[00:42:00]** And like we could bring in, in quotes, a Russian disinformant

**[00:42:04]** and then learn from them what disinformation is, some virtual one,

**[00:42:07]** because from vertegramploa it probably wouldn't work, but to me it seems,

**[00:42:13]** this is absurd, and I see it in myself that I don't trust it.

**[00:42:17]** And regarding graphics, like Dali, Stivel Diffusion, that disruption of

**[00:42:23]** the perception of reality, that I'm on some feeds on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and so on,

**[00:42:29]** and I see pictures, for example historical channels, yeah, and there is simply a picture of how in 19

**[00:42:35]** they had some type of engines, and now it looks like something from steampunk.

**[00:42:40]** And the first thing that comes to my mind is that it was generated.

**[00:42:43]** That I imagine, and this is an authorized channel with two million followers

**[00:42:48]** and it publishes just old, traditional photos, so you can only see there,

**[00:42:52]** how this information technology attacks, or doesn't attack,

**[00:42:57]** somehow exists with our senses and our cognitive apparatus,

**[00:43:01]** how in this way it changes our perception of reality, yeah, and I am the one who,

**[00:43:06]** who knows what it can probably do, so now I suddenly think about everything that maybe it was

**[00:43:10]** generated, suddenly dangerous for nothing, which I'm not sure if it's good, well.

**[00:43:16]** Well, they say that maybe when we are flooded with deepfakes and so on, then maybe

**[00:43:21]** it will help because we will start doubting everything, that maybe the flood of it,

**[00:43:26]** that we simply won't be able to trust anything, will help critical thinking the most.

**[00:43:31]** It's actually like when it's April Fools' Day, that's the only day we use critical thinking,

**[00:43:36]** because suddenly news appear and we say, is it April Fools' or is it true, yeah.

**[00:43:40]** But I just wanted to say, Josef, I agree with you, but I think school is not

**[00:43:46]** just about someone telling the truth, yeah, I think on the contrary, if we give

**[00:43:51]** students work to discover something together and talk about it and discuss,

**[00:43:56]** then something emerges, and I don't want to say truth, but maybe I'll continue what I said,

**[00:44:01]** yes, values, yeah, maybe we learn values more and principles, but that,

**[00:44:07]** and we also talk about the fact that one thing is history, where truth can be shown in ten

**[00:44:13]** different ways, and then there are natural sciences and then programming as learning,

**[00:44:18]** where on the contrary I can use ChatGPT today and it writes code for me and when the code throws an error,

**[00:44:25]** it adjusts it itself and tells me why, and if I ask, it even explains why it does that.

**[00:44:29]** That means I think you're right that yes, it's information technology,

**[00:44:35]** which means one way to use it is to look for some information and we need to verify,

**[00:44:41]** but then it's also about other forms of learning, where I would rather be glad

**[00:44:47]** if it wasn't the teacher standing there for 45 minutes saying something,

**[00:44:51]** but rather encouraging discussions and maybe like when I did academic debating

**[00:44:57]** and simply let the students first have one side as affirmation, meaning they argue in favor.

**[00:45:03]** and then they switch and argue against it.

**[00:45:05]** And everyone finds their own points and sees that the truth isn't black and white.

**[00:45:10]** And for that, I don't need a teacher, I need to design the learning process.

**[00:45:15]** and the question is, in which parts of that process can I use AI today and how?

**[00:45:22]** I just see Eva raising her hand, so I quickly apologize for interrupting.

**[00:45:28]** I'm not an educator, but what you're saying is a perspective on learning,

**[00:45:37]** on some teaching methods, and I fundamentally agree with that.

**[00:45:40]** I also don't want learning to be like Majda to Tereza.

**[00:45:43]** But you mentioned discovering values, and I actually have concerns,

**[00:45:46]** that these models, which we don't even fully understand, actually work properly.

**[00:45:52]** Okay, I'm for it, let me put it positively,

**[00:45:55]** I am definitely for having AI in schools,

**[00:45:58]** but if Honza is meeting with the Minister of Education,

**[00:46:02]** then there should be certification, so I as a parent know,

**[00:46:07]** what kind of AI it is, who created it, what it was trained on,

**[00:46:11]** and what values it contains.

**[00:46:13]** And maybe someone with children, I mean, with whom I share values,

**[00:46:15]** the AI will be different, because the indoctrination

**[00:46:19]** with a certain value framework will be different.

**[00:46:21]** And I don't mean this negatively at all,

**[00:46:23]** but I want to know this, and right now I don't.

**[00:46:25]** And that's the problem I'm addressing.

**[00:46:27]** Otherwise, with the rest, basically we are,

**[00:46:29]** as they say in English, in violent agreement,

**[00:46:31]** I agree with that.

**[00:46:33]** And one more, sorry, just a super quick note.

**[00:46:36]** I don't think you should be positive.

**[00:46:38]** On the contrary, this is exactly what we need.

**[00:46:41]** Yes, we actually need different perspectives

**[00:46:43]** so we can find our own in it.

**[00:46:45]** So I'm very glad to be part of this discussion.

**[00:46:48]** Thanks.

**[00:46:49]** So, Eva.

**[00:46:51]** Well, I'll just respond to the certification,

**[00:46:57]** because I am currently dealing with that.

**[00:46:59]** Actually, when we found that guide abroad, or GPT,

**[00:47:02]** I'll talk about a specific thing,

**[00:47:04]** I sent it to some people at NPI,

**[00:47:07]** to see if they could review it, if our translations are okay, and so on.

**[00:47:11]** And they were basically telling me,

**[00:47:12]** that we should now involve someone in a working group

**[00:47:15]** and start verifying ChatGPT in schools

**[00:47:18]** and then somehow proceed.

**[00:47:19]** But I understand that

**[00:47:21]** rush actions are completely counterproductive in many ways.

**[00:47:25]** On the other hand, the world is changing so incredibly fast,

**[00:47:28]** that before we go through the whole process here,

**[00:47:31]** ChatGPT might stop being relevant, maybe not, I don't know.

**[00:47:34]** Anyway, teachers won't get the materials

**[00:47:37]** they need to start working with it in schools.

**[00:47:41]** So that's one perspective.

**[00:47:44]** And the other is that as Filip changed values and ethics,

**[00:47:47]** that's actually something I think

**[00:47:49]** is the most important to bring into schools.

**[00:47:52]** In my mind, it's set up so that

**[00:47:54]** we should teach children how to use technology effectively.

**[00:47:58]** We should provide some materials or space

**[00:48:02]** to help them understand at least the basics of how the technology works.

**[00:48:05]** And from that comes the third digital competence,

**[00:48:08]** which is having an attitude towards technology.

**[00:48:10]** That means knowing its limits, understanding how it works,

**[00:48:14]** and being resilient.

**[00:48:16]** Yes, it’s not like, sure, here comes a new Cambridge Analytica

**[00:48:20]** and their eyes on about 7,000 people, and with AI,

**[00:48:24]** which now includes generative models and so on,

**[00:48:27]** the way of influencing people,

**[00:48:30]** snapping fingers through social media is a huge danger,

**[00:48:34]** and I’m really putting a lot of effort into

**[00:48:37]** making sure these topics are truly opened up in schools

**[00:48:40]** and really tough, yes, not sugarcoating it,

**[00:48:43]** but just saying what the limits are and talking about it.

**[00:48:47]** And of course the biggest problem is

**[00:48:50]** that I always looked for some authority in the school

**[00:48:54]** who would tell me how it really is,

**[00:48:55]** but right now there is no one who can say how it really is,

**[00:48:58]** because the world is evolving,

**[00:49:00]** few understand it, everyone says something different,

**[00:49:02]** again, we live in a total jungle,

**[00:49:06]** and I think this topic needs to be opened up

**[00:49:09]** and say, yes, we are in the jungle, that's how it is

**[00:49:11]** and let's try to navigate and discover things together

**[00:49:13]** and again, we return to that mindset,

**[00:49:16]** which simply needs to be changed, you know,

**[00:49:18]** it's not about being afraid, but

**[00:49:21]** from my perspective, this whole transformation in education is very difficult,

**[00:49:24]** because there really are many schools

**[00:49:27]** where teachers don't feel comfortable at all,

**[00:49:31]** they are uncertain, I understand them, I get it,

**[00:49:34]** I’m not sure about it myself,

**[00:49:35]** it's a big problem for me to navigate it,

**[00:49:41]** I learn for hours every day,

**[00:49:43]** constantly, you know, and teachers don’t have that capacity,

**[00:49:47]** I understand that, but from my point of view, it actually hits

**[00:49:50]** the established attitude that the teacher is some kind of authority

**[00:49:53]** and should pass on some knowledge.

**[00:49:57]** That is stopping working right now, I hear it often.

**[00:50:00]** Kids are ahead in technology, what can I as a teacher do for them, and they are afraid to open that topic,

**[00:50:07]** because the mindset is, I am the authority who says how it is, and that stopped working, so now I think schools need to

**[00:50:16]** mainly promote changing that approach, let's have a partnership with kids, let's discover together and I as a teacher

**[00:50:25]** am the one who says, this is the value, this is the ethics, especially emphasizing ethical aspects and discovering together with the kids,

**[00:50:33]** letting them tell what new apps they found, let's try it, you know, just, well, wow.

**[00:50:41]** I just applaud and quickly add, this applies to managers in companies too. They have people in their teams who are more advanced and their role is not to be the authority,

**[00:50:51]** but to design the discussion. Thank you very much, Evif, fantastic.

**[00:50:54]** We'll get there, yes, and one thing bothers me before, Honza, I give you the floor, which is that

**[00:51:00]** I encounter that around Red Button there are companies that are somewhat progressive over time.

**[00:51:08]** After all, we are sitting here like with a group interested in moving forward over time and such, you know.

**[00:51:14]** And now I just make a parallel to education, you know.

**[00:51:17]** Teacher, principal live, Edu Zmina, simply AI for kids and that is Elements of AI, these are like terms

**[00:51:23]** known here by a small percentage of schools interested in quality education.

**[00:51:28]** All these things, all the good teachers who are interested in it too,

**[00:51:32]** are proactive and so on. Then there is some percentage of schools that are kind of so-so, you know.

**[00:51:37]** But I feel like Baťa, when you said the Baťa system is for 30% of people,

**[00:51:43]** I think that 30% has actually shrunk significantly with time and technology,

**[00:51:48]** which have become part of that time, to maybe 10% of people.

**[00:51:52]** And those are exactly the creators, the people who want to, the people who have the capacity,

**[00:51:56]** have the means to even try, you know.

**[00:51:58]** And then there is simply, I'll say, if I take the Pareto 80-20, then there are 80% of schools,

**[00:52:05]** managers, people who just work in factories, you know, and teachers.

**[00:52:10]** It doesn't matter, who are swept along by this system, you know.

**[00:52:14]** There's populism about it, shortcuts, TikTok, Facebook, and so on, yeah.

**[00:52:20]** You can't really convince people that you want to explain how the technology works,

**[00:52:25]** because, like, I don't expect they don't care, but they're just not there at all,

**[00:52:30]** and honestly, I don't really know how to work with those 80%,

**[00:52:36]** who still hold 80% of the votes, about where and how things will head,

**[00:52:42]** like in any given country, yeah, that's the thing.

**[00:52:44]** That means when a bunch of billboards go up here, yeah, those 80%

**[00:52:49]** won't have critical thinking, won't be interested, won't do this,

**[00:52:52]** they'll just look at the billboard and say, hey, this is probably how it is,

**[00:52:55]** because I know that guy from the TV, by the way,

**[00:52:59]** they write about him as if he's a good businessman or businesswoman,

**[00:53:03]** and this is the transparency that's actually happening here, yeah.

**[00:53:06]** So I'm actually thinking about what to do about it and whether we're able,

**[00:53:10]** in some way, to start reacting to this and,

**[00:53:13]** to moderate the discussion in this direction, yeah.

**[00:53:16]** Once, with Ján, and it was my first real encounter with reality,

**[00:53:21]** we were at a Chinese steelworks, yeah, where we went to train on innovation,

**[00:53:25]** and we ran into a classroom full of people and everything,

**[00:53:29]** and everything was fine at the Chinese steelworks, yeah, but I assume,

**[00:53:32]** that in such a company, people didn't understand at all why they should even

**[00:53:39]** that it's like, that it's like, that it's like,

**[00:53:42]** that it's like, that it's like, that it's like,

**[00:53:45]** that it's like, that it's like, that it's like,

**[00:53:48]** that it's like, that it's like, that it's like,

**[00:53:51]** that it's like, that it's like, that it's like,

**[00:53:54]** that it's like, that it's like, that it's like,

**[00:53:57]** that it's like, that it's like, that it's like,

**[00:54:00]** that it's like, that it's like, that it's like,

**[00:54:03]** that it's like, that it's like,

**[00:54:06]** that it's like, that it's like, that it's like,

**[00:54:09]** that it's like, that it's like, that it's like,

**[00:54:12]** that it's like, that it's like, that it's like.

**[00:54:36]** Pros and cons.

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**[01:00:00]** and a bit like how the journey went.

**[01:00:03]** Thanks.

**[01:00:07]** I just want to ask, Honza,

**[01:00:10]** when you make that little map and mark the schools and stuff,

**[01:00:15]** do you have some kind of roadmap,

**[01:00:18]** and you know, what I’m curious about?

**[01:00:20]** I’m actually thinking about how Edu change works a bit differently.

**[01:00:25]** They actually chose one specific region

**[01:00:28]** and want to improve that whole region.

**[01:00:32]** And now improving means like what, you name it,

**[01:00:35]** but basically improving some parameters.

**[01:00:39]** Exactly because it’s one unit,

**[01:00:41]** which they kind of take,

**[01:00:45]** because from the perspective of who manages the schools,

**[01:00:47]** who is the founder, and so on,

**[01:00:50]** it has some kind of logic and structure.

**[01:00:51]** That means it’s actually this unit.

**[01:00:53]** Why I’m talking about this is that I would prefer to think about these units,

**[01:00:55]** like districts, rather than going one by one,

**[01:00:59]** because at the end of the day there are four and a half thousand schools or so,

**[01:01:02]** and at first you only invite those who are enthusiastic,

**[01:01:08]** and that’s actually great.

**[01:01:12]** But I want to find the fastest way,

**[01:01:16]** and that’s for me like the prototype and iteration,

**[01:01:18]** how to cover the whole unit and then scale it,

**[01:01:21]** if you understand me. And maybe it’s the same in a company,

**[01:01:24]** how to start transforming a company into a company of the future,

**[01:01:28]** where people know how to learn, meaning management is responsible

**[01:01:32]** and approaches people so that when they leave the company,

**[01:01:36]** they’re not in trouble and know how to take care of themselves,

**[01:01:53]** they teach them financial literacy, just like Batia did,

**[01:01:55]** meaning they are able to simply calculate things, they won't fall into debt collections, and so on.

**[01:01:59]** So, I would like to think about these units, yeah,

**[01:02:03]** maybe just this, since we're talking about it now,

**[01:02:06]** it just came to my mind,

**[01:02:09]** why do we actually think in terms of exponential growth, yeah,

**[01:02:11]** and maybe it's about that startup mindset,

**[01:02:14]** hey, I have so many users, so it's actually good,

**[01:02:18]** that we're riding the hockey stick curve up, but we're not saturating the unit, yeah.

**[01:02:25]** But I think it's change management, nothing else,

**[01:02:29]** and within change management, yes, you have to say there are different methods.

**[01:02:34]** Atka, I just dropped a book tip here for me, Switch by the Heath brothers,

**[01:02:40]** and it talks about this very nicely, meaning the first ones are important,

**[01:02:44]** because they are the white crows, and when you work with them, it spreads further.

**[01:02:48]** That means they are ambassadors in the company, enthusiasts who then help further.

**[01:02:54]** And just how that important curve is relentless,

**[01:02:58]** there will always be people on the other end of the spectrum,

**[01:03:01]** and you can try, you can inspire, but if they don't want to,

**[01:03:06]** you shouldn't waste your energy on them, because you should put it where

**[01:03:10]** it works and where you gradually change the rest of the organization.

**[01:03:14]** And I think, and I'll connect back to what Jáno said,

**[01:03:17]** leadership is action, not a position.

**[01:03:20]** So what each of us can do is actually tell our teacher.

**[01:03:25]** Go to the principal. I don't need to be an AI expert to go to the principal and say,

**[01:03:31]** here's Honza, who has a great project, would you like to talk about it?

**[01:03:34]** And anyone of us can do this.

**[01:03:37]** And when I sometimes talk at workshops and people say, school is terrible,

**[01:03:41]** I ask, how many times have you proposed something at school?

**[01:03:45]** How many times have I gone, and it's not about just proposing, but about going there and knocking on the door,

**[01:03:52]** until the workshop happens.

**[01:03:55]** Because if I want to change something, well, I am the one who can change it.

**[01:03:59]** And that's great, that's great, but here you're actually in a position where you are the creator,

**[01:04:04]** meaning you are proactive, yeah.

**[01:04:07]** You challenge that proactivity because all along we've been raised in education to,

**[01:04:12]** hey, from the club head, do what someone tells you and we raise employees, yeah.

**[01:04:17]** We don't raise entrepreneurs in education, yeah.

**[01:04:19]** And the system is just like, again, we'll tell you what to do and you'll just do it.

**[01:04:23]** And this is deeply rooted in us, really brutally deep.

**[01:04:27]** And there are a few people who have somehow swum out of it,

**[01:04:30]** but I don't know, if I asked Matěn here how, like, if you told people this,

**[01:04:36]** Like, like, will they go for it, won't they, or will they look at you weirdly, or will it take some time.

**[01:04:41]** How actually this, in these factories, yeah, we are really talking about the factories where we simply don't operate.

**[01:04:48]** We don't know it there, yeah, or if I ask, I don't know, Luboš, who has knowledge about

**[01:04:53]** how LEGO worked and when they had to choose, and LEGO is just a fantastic company,

**[01:04:59]** everything just runs smoothly, yeah, they have it there like a family setup and all that,

**[01:05:03]** but when they had to pick a band for the Christmas dinner, look how we chose, yeah.

**[01:05:07]** So, for me, this is about how to actually work with these people and we get to leadership,

**[01:05:15]** we get to leadership where you have some layers, you have a foreman,

**[01:05:21]** and above him, there is someone who handles this so that this person gets to the point

**[01:05:27]** where he even starts thinking about how he can influence what his child will learn at school, yeah.

**[01:05:33]** Like, yeah, that it even occurs to him, because I think a lot of people don't even think about this,

**[01:05:38]** because there are so many videos where the gray person like a zombie goes to work,

**[01:05:43]** just grinds it out, gets a few treats, which he basically,

**[01:05:52]** And that's something that actually scares me here.

**[01:05:56]** And the question is, should it scare you, or isn't it better to focus that energy on us too,

**[01:06:02]** because we will get there, yeah, so we will have to, people will have to.

**[01:06:06]** And I think sometimes, unfortunately, as a society, we need a kick,

**[01:06:09]** just like we needed the pandemic to start working remotely, even though we knew about it,

**[01:06:14]** maybe now we need artificial intelligence to start thinking again a bit about

**[01:06:19]** what skills I have, because as long as we are comfortable, it doesn't push most people, yeah.

**[01:06:26]** Once we get a bit out of comfort, suddenly people who shouldn't be,

**[01:06:31]** start saying, I need to learn this, I need new things.

**[01:06:34]** So maybe we need a bit of discomfort and a kick,

**[01:06:38]** because otherwise, people, even in the factory today, yeah, in Škrovec they have 55 thousand,

**[01:06:44]** if someone is a positive hard worker, they earn 30, 40 thousand,

**[01:06:47]** and maybe they don't even feel the need.

**[01:06:50]** And now I don't want to blame Kodova, but maybe when he is threatened,

**[01:06:54]** by actually being replaced by a machine,

**[01:06:57]** well, part of the people will always be outside of this,

**[01:07:01]** but maybe that will force us to deal with it.

**[01:07:05]** Well, Onzo?

**[01:07:06]** There are again a lot of different thoughts that come to mind.

**[01:07:09]** One thing Filip said is actually a kind of law of energy.

**[01:07:12]** If I have a tiny startup with a certain amount of energy,

**[01:07:15]** I won't waste it on the unconvinced,

**[01:07:17]** because with my energy I can convince one school that didn't want it,

**[01:07:21]** or ten schools that are enthusiastic about it,

**[01:07:23]** so it's more efficient for me to look for the early adopters, the enthusiasts,

**[01:07:27]** who go in first.

**[01:07:29]** The second thing is scaling, what exactly is one unit.

**[01:07:31]** On one hand, it's the student who wants to learn,

**[01:07:34]** because they sign up for the program thanks to that.

**[01:07:37]** On the other hand, it's the teacher who then teaches the whole class.

**[01:07:40]** Next, the unit is actually the school I work with,

**[01:07:42]** then it's the region, like Prague,

**[01:07:45]** and then the whole Czech Republic, but even that seems too little,

**[01:07:48]** because I want to avoid advantaging rich schools over poor schools,

**[01:07:52]** to keep it free, so I don't spread any distortion,

**[01:07:55]** where rich schools would have more access to AI,

**[01:07:57]** and poor schools wouldn't touch it, widening the gap,

**[01:08:01]** so I try to do it across regions

**[01:08:04]** and across as many factors in managing it as possible,

**[01:08:07]** but then other countries in Europe also show interest,

**[01:08:09]** because they don't have something like this and want to do it,

**[01:08:11]** so the unit isn't just the European Union using it,

**[01:08:14]** but eventually maybe the whole world.

**[01:08:16]** We have a big challenge in how we scale the unit,

**[01:08:18]** how we work with the limited resources we have,

**[01:08:20]** to make it as efficient as possible.

**[01:08:22]** When the teachers get excited about it and say,

**[01:08:24]** this is different from what we had, it's not frontal teaching,

**[01:08:26]** we run around the classroom, do worksheets,

**[01:08:28]** talk about different things, and we really enjoy it,

**[01:08:31]** they get inspired and it spreads like a virus,

**[01:08:34]** to put it negatively,

**[01:08:35]** and then other schools want it too,

**[01:08:37]** because they know it works for others.

**[01:08:38]** So I won't go for expensive advertising,

**[01:08:40]** but if it's a viable product, it will spread on its own,

**[01:08:43]** and if not, it has no right to exist.

**[01:08:45]** That was my quick explanation. Thanks.

**[01:08:48]** Ok, thank you. Pepa?

**[01:08:51]** I just have a comment,

**[01:08:54]** I mostly agree with everything said here,

**[01:08:58]** about the 80% who then choose something for the Christmas party,

**[01:09:04]** I don't know what they picked, whether ortel or what,

**[01:09:05]** but that doesn't really matter.

**[01:09:07]** Yeah, I introduced it well.

**[01:09:09]** This popular segment will always be there.

**[01:09:13]** There are always people, since forever, who aren't proactive,

**[01:09:18]** who don't take initiative, you can try to motivate them,

**[01:09:21]** to take initiative, but maybe we just get there,

**[01:09:25]** maybe we get there.

**[01:09:27]** Most of America, the most entrepreneurial nation in the world,

**[01:09:30]** actually lives under socialism,

**[01:09:32]** which is corporate socialism that pays them,

**[01:09:34]** where they just work.

**[01:09:36]** I had a colleague who was 40 and he said,

**[01:09:39]** I'm just going to stick it out here at the company, it was at Merkuru at the time,

**[01:09:43]** because my tax advisor recommended, my financial advisor recommended,

**[01:09:45]** that I just stick it out until retirement,

**[01:09:48]** that it’s no longer worth it to change companies,

**[01:09:49]** because I would lose the accumulated retirement stocks,

**[01:09:52]** that I have there.

**[01:09:53]** So just regarding how people function,

**[01:09:57]** how proactive they are, whether they even have motivation to change,

**[01:10:00]** and so on. That’s one thing.

**[01:10:02]** The second thing, which I think Eva mentioned earlier,

**[01:10:05]** is that times are changing very fast.

**[01:10:10]** Let's not fall for the marketing of OpenAI, Google, and others.

**[01:10:14]** GPT currently has 100 million registered users,

**[01:10:18]** 13 million Ding.

**[01:10:20]** 13 million. Globally, that’s very few.

**[01:10:23]** That’s a narrow group, that’s our bubble,

**[01:10:26]** those who are trying it out and developers building apps on it.

**[01:10:30]** And imagining it will be adopted very quickly is unclear and uncertain.

**[01:10:35]** And Microsoft, by the way, has already hit the brakes a bit,

**[01:10:38]** because even Alkman convinced them how cool and nice it is,

**[01:10:41]** that they had to add filters and roll back a bit, yeah.

**[01:10:45]** So just, just to be cautious.

**[01:10:47]** And one last comment.

**[01:10:49]** What we’re talking about here, that school doesn’t foster proactivity,

**[01:10:52]** I was nine when the internet revolution happened,

**[01:10:57]** and I remember the early 90s,

**[01:10:59]** I felt it very intensely, even after the Uberti era,

**[01:11:02]** just what was happening, I know they threatened us with the starting graduation exam,

**[01:11:08]** and that was in 1998 and then it was first introduced, I think, in 2010, yeah.

**[01:11:12]** And they were threatening us with it since 1994.

**[01:11:15]** We keep going around in circles,

**[01:11:17]** Right now, half the people I see at Kohla,

**[01:11:19]** probably due to their age, are like a new generation,

**[01:11:22]** who feel the need to change the education system.

**[01:11:25]** One thing is to go and bother the principal, who is overwhelmed,

**[01:11:28]** and of course, she won't want to talk to every dad and mom,

**[01:11:31]** who have a biased idea about how their child is a genius,

**[01:11:33]** and deserves the best possible education system.

**[01:11:36]** So we shouldn't be surprised, because many like that come,

**[01:11:39]** they are overwhelmed with administration,

**[01:11:41]** I know, for example, I could have helped them,

**[01:11:43]** but mainly, we've been talking about this for 30 years now,

**[01:11:46]** and unlike the Estonians and Finns, we haven't done it.

**[01:11:48]** Estonians and Finns, around 2000 or late 90s,

**[01:11:52]** experts will correct me exactly, decided,

**[01:11:55]** we are close to Russia, the new era will be technological,

**[01:11:58]** it will be about digitalization, we will teach functional literacy

**[01:12:02]** and critical thinking, and they did it.

**[01:12:04]** And today they have one of the highest resilience levels,

**[01:12:06]** population-wise, against disinformation and cognitive manipulation,

**[01:12:09]** for example, against such negative phenomena.

**[01:12:12]** We didn't do it, and now we look at the same with pension reform.

**[01:12:16]** For example, suddenly everyone is very surprised,

**[01:12:19]** that pensions won't be indexed so quickly.

**[01:12:21]** It's a surprise. Then I said,

**[01:12:23]** that it was Bozděk's or Bezděk's commission,

**[01:12:26]** at the end of the 90s, 25 years ago,

**[01:12:29]** and I remember it as someone who was already involved in the process,

**[01:12:32]** I remember the commission saying,

**[01:12:35]** we will hit a wall, and we will hit it in 2025.

**[01:12:38]** Guess what, in 2023 we hit the wall.

**[01:12:41]** We will hit the wall with the education system in the same way.

**[01:12:44]** So, and as the only thing, one thing is to push it from below,

**[01:12:47]** try to penetrate schools with all kinds of technologies.

**[01:12:50]** I would, a few more days, I'm already long,

**[01:12:52]** but I would add one huge thing there.

**[01:12:54]** If you noticed, many of you experienced during the pandemic,

**[01:12:58]** that children at school switched to some digital tools.

**[01:13:02]** Did anyone ask you, did anyone let you choose,

**[01:13:04]** whether they should use Microsoft or Google, or did the school just announce it?

**[01:13:07]** For example, we found out that the whole school was switching to Google.

**[01:13:10]** So my children's data goes to Google.

**[01:13:14]** I was just glad that the kids could at least learn remotely,

**[01:13:16]** and of course, at that moment, I didn't have the capacity to do anything about it.

**[01:13:20]** And we have to be extremely careful about

**[01:13:22]** how we implement these technologies, who gets the data,

**[01:13:25]** because that becomes the basic profile for

**[01:13:28]** not being in the 20% productive,

**[01:13:31]** but being in the 80% manipulated.

**[01:13:39]** And Jozef hid back behind these, very well.

**[01:13:42]** Evi, come on.

**[01:13:44]** Sorry, I have a sick daughter and she's coming here,

**[01:13:47]** so I'm just making a legacy.

**[01:13:49]** Yes, yes, sorry.

**[01:13:50]** Evi, Evi.

**[01:13:51]** I'm listening.

**[01:13:52]** I just wanted to say that the hype that's here now,

**[01:13:57]** I think it's better to use it rather than anything else.

**[01:14:00]** Because for example, when we released the Chat GPT,

**[01:14:01]** it had 2,000 downloads.

**[01:14:05]** There are 4,000 primary schools here.

**[01:14:07]** So I assume maybe 1,000 of those could have been schools.

**[01:14:09]** That means there was some hype.

**[01:14:13]** They are probably pushed by demand from parents.

**[01:14:14]** I hope at least by demand from parents,

**[01:14:19]** because from my perspective, quite often it's about

**[01:14:21]** demand not coming from parents

**[01:14:22]** and I'm not coming from a fully objective feeling,

**[01:14:27]** but that's kind of how I see it.

**[01:14:29]** So on the contrary, I think there's no point in slowing down now,

**[01:14:32]** but rather to start producing materials

**[01:14:37]** that somehow help with digitalization.

**[01:14:42]** Because of the phase we're in now

**[01:14:45]** with what's happening in education.

**[01:14:48]** There is some new computer science defined by four areas.

**[01:14:50]** It develops computational thinking

**[01:14:54]** and at the same time, there is some recommended curriculum,

**[01:14:57]** which from my point of view is not quite up to date.

**[01:14:59]** However, the four areas of the new computer science appeal to me a lot.

**[01:15:04]** When I talk to people, they have similar opinions about it.

**[01:15:11]** And then we have some digital competence,

**[01:15:13]** which should actually be introduced by teachers in subjects other than computer science.

**[01:15:18]** Primary schools had to start with the new computer science now,

**[01:15:23]** and next year the second level will follow.

**[01:15:26]** A large percentage of schools obviously struggle just with changing their school educational programs,

**[01:15:32]** just to adopt the new computer science curriculum.

**[01:15:34]** And now suddenly the hype around artificial intelligence comes in,

**[01:15:38]** and everyone asks, what's going on?

**[01:15:40]** Some schools haven't even started implementing digital competence,

**[01:15:45]** nor computer science.

**[01:15:46]** And the kids don't really have the knowledge to,

**[01:15:49]** actually start exploring even here in Hlenstopole.

**[01:15:53]** There aren't even materials for it,

**[01:15:55]** because for some reason it seems to me that our state

**[01:15:57]** has given up on creating materials and just defined some areas.

**[01:16:02]** Here in computer science, we also have computational thinking,

**[01:16:05]** which everyone kind of draws from,

**[01:16:07]** but from my perspective, the level is quite inconsistent across subjects.

**[01:16:14]** Often, for example, they relied on some technologies,

**[01:16:17]** which are already outdated.

**[01:16:19]** From my point of view, it's like this,

**[01:16:24]** when I talk to people who are actually active,

**[01:16:28]** and I have the number 400 schools here in the Czech Republic,

**[01:16:32]** these are the schools that are trying new things,

**[01:16:35]** while the rest, on the contrary, and that is my biggest goal,

**[01:16:39]** is to nurture as many as possible.

**[01:16:40]** That means providing them with the best materials,

**[01:16:43]** so even teachers who really don't believe in themselves,

**[01:16:46]** can get started.

**[01:16:48]** And connect it to the areas set by the new computer science curriculum,

**[01:16:53]** and somehow put it all together.

**[01:16:56]** So from this angle, we have just secured funding

**[01:17:01]** for a project called Informatika.gg,

**[01:17:03]** which should develop computational thinking through textbooks,

**[01:17:08]** and at the same time develop digital competence

**[01:17:12]** on an online gamified platform.

**[01:17:15]** And it should connect everything together.

**[01:17:17]** All the materials we created for EIA Dětem,

**[01:17:20]** and are still creating, should be included,

**[01:17:22]** not only on artificial intelligence but also blockchain.

**[01:17:25]** and all these things that are currently relevant.

**[01:17:28]** And actually involve them, connect them into the structure,

**[01:17:31]** of the new informatics so that the teachers understand it.

**[01:17:34]** At the same time, it's quite important that

**[01:17:36]** they need to meet the RVP outputs,

**[01:17:40]** so they can check off everything, which means

**[01:17:42]** linking it here with that, because that's what they need.

**[01:17:45]** That's simply the guide.

**[01:17:47]** A guide on how to do the SVP in this area,

**[01:17:50]** specifically in informatics.

**[01:17:53]** SVP is pretty okay, right, Evi?

**[01:17:55]** Or not?

**[01:17:56]** Like, the educational framework system here

**[01:17:59]** is pretty well done, right?

**[01:18:01]** Or at least people who understand it say

**[01:18:04]** you can add a lot to it.

**[01:18:07]** I would say, my view on it in informatics,

**[01:18:10]** not elsewhere, I don't know that, but in informatics

**[01:18:13]** I really like it.

**[01:18:15]** And actually, when I take artificial intelligence,

**[01:18:17]** I have educational content in all four areas.

**[01:18:19]** I think it's very well thought out,

**[01:18:21]** I like it, it's really workable.

**[01:18:23]** But I say, the problem here is that there isn't

**[01:18:26]** in my opinion, a complete connection.

**[01:18:28]** The educational materials with this,

**[01:18:30]** the quality varies sometimes.

**[01:18:32]** There is actually no directory of resources

**[01:18:34]** where the materials would be authorized.

**[01:18:36]** Again, I say the word jungle.

**[01:18:38]** I'm slowly starting to close it,

**[01:18:45]** Filipe, before I give you the floor,

**[01:18:47]** because our time is running out.

**[01:18:49]** And I just want to say,

**[01:18:51]** thank you very much for...

**[01:18:53]** Here I have a realization.

**[01:18:55]** I somehow put together two paths in my head.

**[01:18:57]** One is B2C and the other is B2B.

**[01:18:59]** It's basically creating things

**[01:19:03]** for the student themselves.

**[01:19:05]** That means any student

**[01:19:07]** should simply have some places,

**[01:19:09]** where he or she can come

**[01:19:11]** and basically start developing themselves

**[01:19:13]** in whatever they want.

**[01:19:15]** So that's one thing.

**[01:19:17]** And to put it in medieval terms,

**[01:19:19]** that's a library.

**[01:19:21]** So I can come there, open a book

**[01:19:23]** and read.

**[01:19:25]** Then there's B2B, and I actually remember

**[01:19:27]** that we, for example, collaborate

**[01:19:29]** and with Brain&Breakfast

**[01:19:31]** we started creating methodologies for schools.

**[01:19:33]** And I was really surprised

**[01:19:35]** that when we had Vladimír Dzura

**[01:19:37]** and there was this propaganda,

**[01:19:39]** and Josef, I don't know if you saw that breakfast,

**[01:19:41]** and I feel like you and Vladimír should

**[01:19:43]** actually connect, so definitely check it out.

**[01:19:45]** Because we made a methodology from it,

**[01:19:47]** and that methodology was a total wow for me,

**[01:19:49]** downloaded by about 5,600 teachers.

**[01:19:51]** Which made me say, wow,

**[01:19:59]** that would actually, like now...

**[01:20:00]** but you say that in Digihavl they have stickers and stuff,

**[01:20:07]** so it seems to me that helping teachers design their lessons with these methodologies

**[01:20:12]** so they have as little work as possible, enjoy it, and so do the kids,

**[01:20:16]** means creating this kind of support for them.

**[01:20:18]** And that's just in schools.

**[01:20:19]** Now the second thing, I take this as a parallel,

**[01:20:23]** because we also talked about the future of work,

**[01:20:26]** it's exactly the same for employees and managers,

**[01:20:30]** that the moment I, for example, within Red Button Edu,

**[01:20:35]** the platform I'm on now,

**[01:20:37]** create methodologies so that every manager can work purposefully

**[01:20:42]** with their person or their team in some way,

**[01:20:46]** it wouldn't be difficult for him or her,

**[01:20:49]** and it would actually be enjoyable, bonding, and so on, that's one thing.

**[01:20:53]** And on the other hand, we simply create content and discussions,

**[01:20:56]** so that any of those people, from those companies, can join this here.

**[01:21:00]** So maybe these are the two parallels.

**[01:21:04]** And Filipe, so I just take away the word methodology,

**[01:21:09]** besides Eva's jungle, I take away the word methodology.

**[01:21:12]** I think working on them will be good, and I feel that you too, Jáno, think,

**[01:21:17]** that when it comes to companies, you actually create those schools and methodologies,

**[01:21:21]** that's what it is, right? Filipe, take it from me.

**[01:21:26]** I might separate the discussion a bit from education in the end,

**[01:21:30]** because I feel it actually applies everywhere, that it is very universal,

**[01:21:35]** and when we talk about schools, I don't know about others,

**[01:21:38]** but I feel like I can influence a little,

**[01:21:41]** but it's really more about people, like the leaders.

**[01:21:43]** But what each of us can probably do is, whether you have a school, family, company, or nonprofit,

**[01:21:49]** is that we have to get inspired, which is also why you're here,

**[01:21:54]** so I don't have to tell you, but it means really starting to follow interesting people,

**[01:21:58]** on Twitter, LinkedIn, anyone, just really start following people,

**[01:22:03]** who deal with this topic, so I get,

**[01:22:06]** because what I follow shapes my thoughts for the future.

**[01:22:11]** Likewise, there's the second part, which is sharing.

**[01:22:14]** That means whether sharing by inviting interesting people, interesting companies,

**[01:22:18]** talking with them, also sharing within the team and discussing it,

**[01:22:21]** also sharing with family, and sharing anywhere else.

**[01:22:24]** And then there's the third part, which is experiments.

**[01:22:27]** That means really trying it out, discovering limits, discovering possibilities,

**[01:22:31]** and even if it doesn't work today, at least I know what it will look like in the future.

**[01:22:36]** We have these methodologies here, and for example, I start on March 3rd,

**[01:22:40]** this one already has a full program, but we will try there,

**[01:22:43]** to get these experiments into the KPIs of individual teams.

**[01:22:49]** Which means there might be a KPI like, try out,

**[01:22:52]** really do an experiment with at least one AI tool,

**[01:22:54]** using AI within a month and prepare just one slide from it,

**[01:22:58]** with what you tried, what impact it had, what the limits are.

**[01:23:02]** And I think that here, really inspiration, sharing, experiments,

**[01:23:06]** is the way to be able to recognize,

**[01:23:10]** where the opportunities are and be able to fulfill them.

**[01:23:13]** And of course, that then opens up new thinking for us.

**[01:23:16]** But I really think it doesn't matter if we're talking about schools,

**[01:23:19]** or about family, but this is something each of us can do,

**[01:23:23]** and I think we should all reflect on whether we are already doing it today.

**[01:23:26]** And maybe just sitting at home and talking with the kids about it,

**[01:23:31]** assigning them tasks, or working together on some assignment,

**[01:23:34]** let's make two pictures, let's make a comic,

**[01:23:37]** and really exploring the possibilities together,

**[01:23:40]** because this will be their world and we need to engage together

**[01:23:47]** in that discovery and creation. So that's just a final thought from me.

**[01:23:53]** If anyone has no questions or anything to share.

**[01:24:07]** Five seconds of silence passed, which means I don't feel any questions here,

**[01:24:12]** neither in the room nor online. So I wanted to thank you very much for the discussion,

**[01:24:17]** thank you for sharing, I really enjoyed it. I believe that whether it's the great Red Button

**[01:24:22]** or anything else, we're in touch, meaning we can keep talking,

**[01:24:26]** we can continue discussing these things, and I hope,

**[01:24:30]** we'll turn this into some concrete actions, which is already happening.

**[01:24:35]** So thanks a lot, take care, and see you again. Bye and take care.

**[01:24:42]** Thank you, it was great, thanks. Thanks everyone for the great discussion, take care, and thanks Honza for organizing, thank you.