# Transcript: AI and the epidemic of loneliness ## Description AI is fundamentally changing the way we work, communicate, and function as a society. At the same time, loneliness, polarization, and the loss of natural communities are increasing. How is society evolving in the AI era? What does this mean for companies and leadership? And what role will communities play during technological changes?We will discuss these topics with Vladimír Šucha in Bratislava as part of Brain&Breakfast Slovakia. Who is Vladimír Šucha Vladimír Šucha is the former director-general of the Joint Research Centre of the European Commission in Brussels. ## Transcript **[00:00:30]** It matters that it's important to create important matters, **[00:00:34]** important matters, important matters, important matters, **[00:00:38]** important matters, important matters, important matters, **[00:00:42]** important matters, important matters, important matters, **[00:00:46]** important matters, important matters, important matters, **[00:00:50]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:00:54]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:00:58]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:02]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:06]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:10]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:14]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:18]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:22]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:26]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:30]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:34]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:38]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:42]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:46]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:50]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:54]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:01:58]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:02]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:06]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:10]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:14]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:18]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:22]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:26]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:30]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:34]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:38]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:42]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:46]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:50]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:54]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:02:58]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:02]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:06]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:10]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:14]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:18]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:22]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:26]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:30]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:34]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:38]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:42]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:46]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:50]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:54]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:03:58]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:04:02]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:04:06]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:04:10]** matters, matters, matters, matters, matters, **[00:04:14]** matters, matters, matters, matters. **[00:04:40]** I don't know if any of you know Brain&Breakfast after your morning, **[00:04:44]** but it's an interactive format, so I'll slowly ask you, **[00:04:48]** if you'd be so kind to take your mobile phone, **[00:04:52]** maybe I'll ask the director to switch the slide now. **[00:05:00]** Type in www.slajdu.com, the hashtag is Brain, **[00:05:06]** or you can scan this QR code here, **[00:05:11]** and I'll move aside so you can see it. **[00:05:15]** Those of you watching us live, **[00:05:17]** you have it right next to the window. **[00:05:20]** We agreed that besides you answering the question now, **[00:05:23]** whether you've ever had breakfast with us or not, **[00:05:25]** this is just a warm-up. **[00:05:28]** We agreed that if you want to ask any question here in the hall, **[00:05:30]** please write it in this app. **[00:05:34]** The same goes for those watching us live right now. **[00:05:38]** The format will be a bit different. **[00:05:42]** We decided that in the Czech Republic we have a lecture **[00:05:44]** and a half-hour discussion, but here we'll turn it around a lot. **[00:05:47]** That means we'll do a lightning talk, **[00:05:50]** max 20 minutes as an introduction to the topic, **[00:05:52]** and then it will be a discussion. **[00:05:54]** And I'm really glad that Jana is here with me, **[00:05:59]** my great teacher, who actually... **[00:06:01]** I'll probably just sit here and listen, **[00:06:04]** while the great men talk, **[00:06:06]** and I'll mostly be sitting **[00:06:09]** listening to the questions you ask. **[00:06:12]** I see a few people have already signed up, **[00:06:15]** which is good news. **[00:06:17]** So Jana, you'll probably introduce today's guest, right? **[00:06:21]** Good day, I thought just now, **[00:06:25]** that Vladimír Šucha would come in and we'd hug him. **[00:06:28]** You'd applaud and he'd come in. **[00:06:31]** But no, have breakfast, drink your coffee, and go home, **[00:06:35]** because yesterday, when I was traveling from Žilina to Bratislava, **[00:06:39]** my phone rang on the train, **[00:06:41]** and Vladimír Šucha sadly told me, **[00:06:44]** that there is a strike in Brussels and his flight was canceled. **[00:06:49]** They gave him a flight to the terrace, **[00:06:52]** when this event is happening, he was supposed to fly. **[00:06:55]** So he's kind of the gentleman of our meetings, **[00:06:58]** he canceled the flight and joined us from a hotel in Brussels. **[00:07:02]** So we'll see Vladimír, we'll talk with him, **[00:07:05]** but unfortunately, he's not here physically. **[00:07:07]** I'd like to welcome Vladimír Šucha, **[00:07:10]** someone I've known for a long time. **[00:07:13]** I remember when he led the Joint Research Centre in Brussels, **[00:07:17]** and he was among the highest-ranking people, **[00:07:21]** who led all science research in Europe. **[00:07:24]** Then he worked on the AI Act team. **[00:07:27]** They studied the impact of social networks, **[00:07:30]** and intelligence on our society and regulated **[00:07:33]** this technology. Recently, we all probably remember him **[00:07:36]** as the European Union representative in Slovakia. **[00:07:39]** So Vladko, welcome among us and I give you the floor. **[00:07:43]** And greetings to everyone in Bratislava. **[00:07:47]** I'm sorry I couldn't be with you. **[00:07:50]** Many of those I saw on the recording, **[00:07:53]** I would have loved to see in person, **[00:07:56]** but yesterday all flights were canceled, **[00:07:59]** until late at night in Brussels. **[00:08:03]** So I have to join you only online. **[00:08:07]** Okay, so once I manage to finish my presentation, **[00:08:14]** I might say a few introductory words about it. **[00:08:25]** Then we will have time for discussion. **[00:08:31]** Loneliness in the era of hyperconnectivity. **[00:08:37]** We have never been as connected as we are now, **[00:08:40]** and at the same time, we have never been lonelier. **[00:08:47]** That might be the subtitle of this presentation and discussion. **[00:08:53]** But let me start by taking you, **[00:08:56]** all the way back to the beginning of my journey with loneliness, **[00:09:00]** or about loneliness. **[00:09:03]** It was November 2014, and I was listening to a speech **[00:09:09]** by Pope Francis in the European Parliament. **[00:09:14]** It’s a very interesting speech, his address. **[00:09:19]** I recommend you watch it; it’s still available. **[00:09:24]** What caught my attention was how he spoke passionately about loneliness, **[00:09:29]** and said it was one of the most widespread diseases in today’s Europe, **[00:09:33]** that it’s about loneliness—those who are not connected to others. **[00:09:37]** That really stuck in my mind, and since at that time I was **[00:09:41]** a newly appointed director of a scientific service **[00:09:45]** at the European Commission and had many very capable **[00:09:50]** and skilled colleagues, I asked those who were relevant **[00:09:54]** to this field, and I asked them, **[00:09:58]** “Could you please...” **[00:10:00]** check where Pope Francis got this data from, **[00:10:06]** where he knew that loneliness is the most widespread disease, **[00:10:09]** that loneliness is really such a problem in Europe. **[00:10:13]** About a week or two later, they came back and said that **[00:10:18]** they searched everything, but no data on loneliness in Europe **[00:10:23]** exists. **[00:10:27]** So, I wasn’t quite sure where he got that from, **[00:10:32]** but since no data existed, we decided to create it. **[00:10:35]** So we actually conducted the first loneliness survey in Europe, **[00:10:41]** covering all member countries of Europe, **[00:10:46]** and published it in 2016. **[00:10:50]** Since then, Europe has been doing regular checks and surveys, **[00:10:55]** and the numbers are not very good. And this was even before **[00:11:00]** all developed countries started to gradually discover the problem of loneliness, **[00:11:05]** and in some countries, it has gotten so serious **[00:11:10]** that they have a ministerial office for loneliness, **[00:11:16]** or it is part of the portfolio of some ministers. **[00:11:21]** Maybe I'll start by explaining three terms. **[00:11:27]** One is loneliness. That is loneliness, a subjective feeling. **[00:11:32]** It doesn't mean that the person is socially isolated. **[00:11:37]** That is the second term, when it can be quantified. **[00:11:42]** It is a certain number. And in that research we have, **[00:11:45]** and if I remember correctly, they quantified it **[00:11:50]** as fewer interactions with acquaintances or family, **[00:11:53]** once a month. And solitude is a feeling, **[00:11:58]** or a state, when we enjoy being alone, **[00:12:04]** sometimes we are alone and sometimes we need to be alone, **[00:12:08]** and some people voluntarily go for a short **[00:12:13]** or long period of solitude. **[00:12:16]** So loneliness is a forced subjective feeling of a person, **[00:12:22]** and social isolation is a quantified situation. **[00:12:28]** Since we started thinking about it in 2015, **[00:12:35]** even the World Health Organization and research began to appear late. **[00:12:39]** So we also have a global perspective. **[00:12:43]** And that global perspective is hardly joyful, **[00:12:46]** because we see that according to WHO one in six people **[00:12:49]** feels lonely. And WHO links annually **[00:12:56]** about 870,000 deaths to loneliness. **[00:13:03]** That means 100 people every hour. **[00:13:07]** Who is the most vulnerable? I name seniors, **[00:13:15]** as it is still repeated in our society, **[00:13:19]** and seniors are still treated as the most endangered group **[00:13:23]** economically, socially, or psychologically. **[00:13:28]** But the most endangered group is definitely in our society **[00:13:32]** and technology. We are young people, and especially **[00:13:37]** teenagers or very young adults. **[00:13:42]** And then, if we look at it from a crime perspective, **[00:13:45]** it is mainly low-crime people. **[00:13:48]** What is very interesting are studies about **[00:13:53]** how loneliness clearly causes connections **[00:13:59]** to a relatively large number of causal studies, **[00:14:08]** connections to higher mortality, nervous diseases, **[00:14:12]** which we will get to, and here is one of those studies, **[00:14:16]** so if we want to say it figuratively, **[00:14:20]** the feeling of loneliness equals smoking 15 cigarettes a day. **[00:14:30]** So research shows there's a 50% chance of survival **[00:14:36]** with strong exercise, or a 50% higher chance, **[00:14:40]** and with feelings of loneliness, the mortality risk increases by 32%. **[00:14:49]** Now let's look at Europe, these are our studies, **[00:14:53]** which we conducted, showing around 12-13%. **[00:15:01]** These are people who are constantly lonely, 36% at least occasionally lonely. **[00:15:08]** And what's worse, a complete disaster, is that even in 2016, **[00:15:14]** when data was collected, young people were below the European average, **[00:15:19]** it was at 9%, and now it's already 23%, **[00:15:26]** so that's a huge increase. And among the most affected countries, **[00:15:31]** there's Ireland, Luxembourg, **[00:15:34]** Bulgaria, Greece, so there's no clear cultural-geographical pattern **[00:15:41]** that we could identify from this. **[00:15:45]** Looking at Slovakia and the Czech Republic, it's interesting **[00:15:49]** that even though they are culturally and geographically close, **[00:15:55]** Slovakia is above average in people experiencing loneliness, **[00:16:04]** about 20%, social isolation is 19%, **[00:16:09]** so roughly a third of the population is affected **[00:16:13]** either by loneliness or social isolation. **[00:16:16]** The Czech Republic is among the countries below the European Union average, **[00:16:20]** and in this case, being below average is positive, **[00:16:25]** and it's only about 90%, so we see the difference is almost 100% **[00:16:35]** between the Czech Republic and Slovakia. It would be very interesting to explore **[00:16:39]** why this is so. Of course, loneliness is not just a matter of technology, **[00:16:45]** but I believe there's no doubt, and we have enough causal studies, **[00:16:54]** that it's not just correlations, technology has greatly accelerated **[00:17:01]** this leap. And of course, it's not just generative artificial intelligence **[00:17:08]** since 2022, and we might not have many causal studies on that yet, **[00:17:15]** but social networks have had artificial intelligence in their algorithms since 2009. **[00:17:23]** So we already have over 16 years of exposure to artificial intelligence **[00:17:28]** through algorithms, and we have a good amount of data **[00:17:36]** that tells us there is a clear relationship. **[00:17:45]** And artificial intelligence is actually disrupting **[00:17:50]** the human ecosystem, the human foundation, **[00:17:55]** which is cognitive-emotional and social. **[00:18:00]** Here, we mainly talk about disruption of the social, **[00:18:03]** meaning the ability to form relationships. These are algorithmic feeds, **[00:18:07]** generative assistants, and of course, intimate AI partners, **[00:18:14]** which are on the rise these days, as we discuss, **[00:18:28]** and they represent an absolute threat, especially to the younger generation, **[00:18:33]** but maybe we will talk about that at another Brain & Breakfast, **[00:18:37]** because the numbers, the data, are alarming. **[00:18:41]** So, as I said, these are advantages and drawbacks, **[00:18:45]** some research results say that basically the brain's setting **[00:18:54]** when feeling lonely is the same as the feeling of threat. **[00:18:59]** And since it is chronic, it leads to chronic stress, **[00:19:03]** and later in the stage to chronic inflammation. **[00:19:10]** So that is basically the process. **[00:19:14]** Studies show that loneliness, or the feeling of loneliness, **[00:19:19]** increases the risk of dementia by about 30%, Alzheimer's by almost 40%, **[00:19:28]** and cardiovascular diseases at a level comparable to smoking, **[00:19:32]** or obesity, so it is a very significant factor. **[00:19:38]** Maybe to conclude, a few surprising, **[00:19:42]** not entirely intuitive relationships or facts related to loneliness. **[00:19:50]** The first is that when they studied human brain activity, **[00:20:00]** loneliness activated the same brain areas as hunger. **[00:20:07]** So you could say loneliness is social hunger. **[00:20:12]** And when we actually use artificial intelligence, various AI companions, **[00:20:20]** partners, they are like empty social calories, **[00:20:25]** we can gain weight from them, but they have no positive effect on our health. **[00:20:34]** Then there are several scientific studies dealing with whether **[00:20:41]** loneliness is contagious. And this may relate to this picture. **[00:20:50]** Studies show that loneliness, **[00:20:56]** as we said from the beginning, is not physical separation from people, **[00:21:02]** but a specific perception of the world. So people who carry loneliness, **[00:21:11]** process and perceive the world very similarly. **[00:21:16]** But each lonely person in their own way. And this then relates to the possible **[00:21:23]** hypothesis of contagiousness, that when you are on the edge of the social world **[00:21:30]** and start perceiving the world as lonely and start seeing the world **[00:21:37]** differently than others, by being different, not fitting **[00:21:42]** into the social system, you break contacts with people **[00:21:51]** around you. And those closest to you **[00:21:54]** begin to feel that they perceive things differently, and from that they may **[00:22:02]** limit their contacts with other people, which can cause what **[00:22:10]** could be called contagiousness. But of course, **[00:22:14]** there is not enough evidence for this yet, but it is a kind of hypothesis. **[00:22:20]** So in conclusion, it is no longer a question of whether we have a problem. **[00:22:27]** The question is what we will do with this problem, **[00:22:34]** what we can do about it, and I assume we will discuss that **[00:22:39]** also with Honza and Janko Košturiak. Thank you very much. **[00:22:45]** You are used to clapping a lot, so let's do it **[00:22:50]** at the beginning and at the end. We'll have fun. If anyone really wants to **[00:22:55]** ask a question, there are two options. The first is the slide. **[00:23:00]** Please write it there, and I will somehow interpret it later. **[00:23:05]** The second is, if someone really hates the slide and all that, raise your hand, **[00:23:10]** and a microphone will come to you and we'll start the discussion. **[00:23:15]** I saw that you already wrote a book about your notes, so try to start. **[00:23:40]** ... **[00:23:53]** It is most likely because young people use **[00:24:01]** social networks the most and are most exposed to artificial intelligence, **[00:24:05]** unlike older people. And of course, **[00:24:10]** the human base is still developing, **[00:24:17]** so the cognitive-emotional-social foundation is still developing, **[00:24:23]** and therefore it is much more sensitive to such technological interventions into this foundation. **[00:24:32]** So we could do something. Janko, with your microphone, **[00:24:36]** because I hear you very weakly. **[00:24:40]** I might ask right away, what are the consequences for society **[00:24:58]** in general that loneliness actually brings, besides the impact **[00:25:03]** on the individual. What does it actually cost us? **[00:25:11]** Of course, it costs us because it is a predisposition to diseases, **[00:25:16]** either physical or mental. Also, a number I saw, **[00:25:21]** that globally mental illnesses affect about 3% of people. **[00:25:28]** And that 3% represents an economic cost of 5 trillion dollars. **[00:25:35]** Globally. So that's huge, huge, and it's not just mental illnesses, **[00:25:40]** not the others. And then also, when it manifests as a disease, **[00:25:49]** I would say, there are still relatively few studies showing **[00:25:54]** that these people tend to be angry. **[00:26:00]** They see society differently, as we said, they are angry, **[00:26:05]** angry at society and therefore they become a very easy **[00:26:12]** victim of extremes. So they close themselves into their own bubble, **[00:26:16]** and that bubble shifts more and more towards the extreme. **[00:26:20]** So it is also part of the problem, I would say, the political problem, **[00:26:24]** that we have with our society becoming more and more polarized. **[00:26:31]** It seems to me that this has always been the worst thing that could happen to a person. **[00:26:37]** To be excluded from some herd, to be kicked out of the city. **[00:26:43]** So it's probably similar, right? The feeling is probably the same. **[00:26:47]** That no one understands me, and that's probably the anger, right? **[00:26:51]** Are they somehow...? **[00:26:53]** Yes, only social media allows these people to connect **[00:26:59]** into some virtual groups, virtual tribes, pushing each other **[00:27:07]** with similarly angry people. So here it is, I would say, **[00:27:12]** also amplified. **[00:27:14]** Hatkova, when I connect it with Harari, and Harari uses the term **[00:27:20]** irrelevant people, or useless people. People who are useless, **[00:27:25]** unnecessary, somehow invisible. With what you just said, **[00:27:30]** that these people perceive the world differently, can be **[00:27:34]** manipulated in a different way. And if we connect it with Harari, Harari says **[00:27:39]** we divide into two groups, homo Deus and homo useless. **[00:27:43]** So we are heading towards a dictatorship, a divided society into some people **[00:27:48]** who will control it dictatorially and then a mass of angry, **[00:27:54]** defenseless, wandering people. Do you see such a dystopian scenario here? **[00:28:02]** Yes, but it’s not necessarily only related to loneliness, but I think it relates **[00:28:09]** to a broader impact of artificial intelligence. **[00:28:14]** When we did a study in 2020 about the impact **[00:28:22]** of artificial intelligence on society, we had about 50 experts from around the world, **[00:28:30]** with whom we discussed and who filled out a questionnaire. **[00:28:35]** One question was about the impact on democracy, and all 50 agreed. **[00:28:43]** That was the only question everyone answered almost the same, **[00:28:48]** that artificial intelligence is a great threat to democracy. **[00:28:53]** By its nature, it is not democratic. By its nature, **[00:28:58]** if you have it in your hands, it supports autocracy. **[00:29:02]** So that is, we would say, an answer from a broader perspective, **[00:29:10]** not just loneliness, but the overall impact of artificial intelligence, **[00:29:19]** and one of the scenarios is really that we divide into a small group of people **[00:29:24]** who control artificial intelligence, who have it in their hands. **[00:29:30]** That might be about 2% of people, then maybe 10-15% **[00:29:39]** who need it for their work, and then the remaining 85% **[00:29:49]** are more or less useless. It’s one of the darker scenarios. **[00:29:55]** It doesn’t have to necessarily happen, but of course every... **[00:30:00]** responsible government, every responsible society must work **[00:30:05]** with all scenarios and certainly also with this one, **[00:30:09]** which should be prevented. **[00:30:13]** We work at Red Button and we only realized this year **[00:30:17]** that with exponential technology, as something **[00:30:22]** that fascinates us, that we are innovators, it’s in our genes, and we see **[00:30:26]** huge effects and opportunities, but we realized something **[00:30:31]** we call H to the T, like H raised to the power of T, **[00:30:35]** which is humanity raised to the power of technology, and we realized **[00:30:39]** that if that H is not strong, then everything happening around, **[00:30:43]** so it will ultimately approach zero, meaning that if the hook **[00:30:47]** is greater than one, it shifts, but if it's less than one, **[00:30:51]** it simply goes downhill, so we started again **[00:30:55]** whether it's all the programs we do, including this one after all, **[00:30:59]** the meeting, and you can see it's a topic because you showed up. **[00:31:03]** Here there are lots of questions about what should actually help, **[00:31:08]** what is proven. Boris asks how much harm the **[00:31:14]** hybrid work model has caused and so on, so try a bit, **[00:31:19]** so we don't end up in gloom and a dystopian society, **[00:31:24]** what could actually help. **[00:31:28]** That's most of the layers. Maybe to one question, yes, **[00:31:33]** I don't know if the hybrid work process really helped. **[00:31:41]** Maybe hybrid not so much, but the full COVID, **[00:31:45]** remote work and especially that we had schools **[00:31:52]** in Slovakia closed the most in the entire OECD, **[00:31:57]** or maybe even in UNESCO countries, **[00:32:01]** which is basically the whole world, probably quite senselessly, **[00:32:06]** that had a huge, huge impact on loneliness **[00:32:13]** and of course on other mental illnesses. **[00:32:16]** During COVID, loneliness among young people rose **[00:32:23]** from 9% in 2016 to 36%. **[00:32:30]** Then it dropped a bit and stabilized at about 23%. **[00:32:35]** I don't think it's rocket science. **[00:32:42]** I think when we have evidence that social networks **[00:32:47]** are such a risk, and I think by now there's no doubt, **[00:32:53]** even the most critical person can't deny **[00:32:57]** that we have causal links and proof, **[00:33:01]** and I still wonder why at the political level **[00:33:04]** we keep supporting social networks and their business model. **[00:33:09]** They don't bring anything good to society. **[00:33:13]** They only bring costs because all those mental illnesses **[00:33:17]** cost huge amounts of money. And again, it's causally proven **[00:33:22]** that detaching or significantly reducing young people's presence **[00:33:27]** on social networks brings them back to real life **[00:33:32]** and improves many of the mental disorders and problems **[00:33:38]** they had. So I just open my eyes in wonder **[00:33:42]** why we are so naive and foolish **[00:33:48]** not to radically regulate social networks somehow **[00:33:55]** and go deeper into the business model of social networks. **[00:34:00]** So there's no need to abolish them, because that would probably be counterproductive, **[00:34:06]** but for example limit profits from advertising and how **[00:34:12]** algorithms actually work that create all that harm **[00:34:17]** that exists there. So, I would approach it at the level **[00:34:22]** that a democratic society should put pressure on politicians **[00:34:26]** or politicians. It seems to me quite worrying and from that, **[00:34:29]** that society is divided and quite good points, I would say, **[00:34:36]** political gains in the social world, because of course, **[00:34:40]** the algorithm is set up to promote extremism **[00:34:44]** and I don't just mean the extreme edges of the political spectrum, **[00:34:51]** but we see that in political discourse there is more and more, **[00:34:56]** I would say, vulgarity, emotions, and that kind of tension and strain. **[00:35:02]** And that's because the algorithm works that way. **[00:35:05]** The more emotionally charged it is, the more people it reaches, **[00:35:12]** because that's the business model of the attention economy. **[00:35:19]** So, for example, in the regulatory area, to intervene in this model. **[00:35:24]** And if the political layer is not willing to do it on its own, **[00:35:31]** what should be done is to create civic pressure on them. **[00:35:36]** And until this happens, of course, we don't have to **[00:35:40]** just delegate all responsibility to the political layer. **[00:35:47]** We can also take responsibility ourselves. And that means quite simply **[00:35:52]** building healthier relationships between people. And of course for children, **[00:36:01]** young people, maybe even older ones, to limit as much as possible **[00:36:07]** the use of social media. But the main thing is **[00:36:13]** to create the relationships we build and create space for building relationships. **[00:36:20]** So this is very important, let's say, in schools. **[00:36:24]** That means teamwork, above all, not individual work. **[00:36:28]** A good step is banning phones in schools. And mainly **[00:36:34]** because even during breaks, children should start communicating **[00:36:38]** with each other, not sending chat messages, **[00:36:43]** even if they are sitting or standing next to each other. So these are all **[00:36:49]** small things that are very important, of course, in the workplace, **[00:36:53]** team building, etc. And it all ties into what you said, Honza, **[00:36:59]** and I will be talking about this whole line tomorrow at the Forbes festival, **[00:37:06]** the whole line of what I deal with, which is actually **[00:37:10]** various aspects of the erosion of the human foundation. **[00:37:15]** That is cognitive-emotional-social-relational. **[00:37:20]** And I think that's the key, maybe an anecdote. **[00:37:26]** I was in Brussels because I was invited by the European Commission **[00:37:29]** to talk about these things. And it was interesting **[00:37:34]** that the people responsible for social issues, employment **[00:37:40]** and various other aspects for which I had that lecture, **[00:37:45]** which I say is the first time I've heard about these things. **[00:37:50]** And it was the first lecture in their series of lectures, **[00:37:53]** where they learned something completely new. So these are things **[00:37:58]** that seem natural to me, but probably aren't entirely clear. **[00:38:07]** And we should talk about them as much as possible. **[00:38:13]** Alright, now I'll respond to what you said. **[00:38:17]** You know a bit about us at Dobré Pastýřství, you come to us. **[00:38:22]** It's a tough experiment, where there are currently about a thousand people. **[00:38:28]** And those thousand people came from the streets and were socially excluded. **[00:38:33]** That doesn't necessarily mean they were lonely by your definition, **[00:38:37]** but I think they were lonely and especially felt useless. **[00:38:41]** And by receiving some acceptance and expressing themselves, **[00:38:45]** they say they found a second family there, and later they get jobs, **[00:38:50]** so they can be useful. I see complete miracles there, **[00:38:54]** because those people heal and return to life. **[00:38:57]** So it's not just about preventing them from freezing on the street. **[00:39:00]** It's actually a way for them to return to life. **[00:39:04]** It works there. It works there. **[00:39:06]** I won't talk about percentages, I can't say, **[00:39:10]** but I see such miracles happening every day. **[00:39:14]** Now, what I want to ask and build on is, **[00:39:18]** we always feel that the lonely are among the poor on the street **[00:39:22]** or among people without jobs. **[00:39:25]** And since I've spent my whole life with wealthy people, **[00:39:28]** and I think very wealthy people, **[00:39:30]** I found maybe greater loneliness among them. **[00:39:34]** And they are in groups of people, but those relationships **[00:39:38]** may be superficial, maybe they don't have real **[00:39:42]** friends, support, or security. **[00:39:44]** Of course, they drink better alcohol and snort better drugs **[00:39:48]** than our clients. **[00:39:50]** But your opinion on this, since you operate in both these areas, **[00:39:56]** and these people are even worse off compared to... **[00:40:00]** like the homeless, because they might not realize their situation, **[00:40:05]** since they have nice suits, big cars, big houses, **[00:40:08]** but loneliness is spreading through society, **[00:40:11]** not just affecting the poorest. What is your view on this? **[00:40:19]** I think you haven't answered this yet. There are relatively large studies **[00:40:25]** on happiness, and I think there's no doubt about it, **[00:40:33]** that all the research shows that a person feels happiness **[00:40:38]** only when they have meaningful relationships or create meaningful relationships. **[00:40:43]** So that's probably the most important thing, **[00:40:46]** which is why I really appreciate what you do at Dobry Pastier **[00:40:53]** and why I like going there whenever I can, **[00:40:57]** because I see it's not just about giving people, **[00:41:02]** sheltering them and providing accommodation and some food, **[00:41:06]** but above all, giving them a sense of life and a new sense of life **[00:41:13]** and you give them that new sense of life through the relationships they can build **[00:41:17]** whether with Vládko and Slák, or with the rest of you, **[00:41:21]** but also among themselves. And that's actually **[00:41:25]** what is very much missing in our society, so we need to return **[00:41:29]** to what František said twelve years ago **[00:41:34]** and I still don't understand how he knew these things. **[00:41:41]** I think one solution for the middle class **[00:41:51]** or the mainstream society is to also adopt such people, **[00:41:57]** not literally, but say for some groups of people at work, **[00:42:06]** to build relationships with such 'boring' people, **[00:42:10]** and it can be Dobry Pastier, but it doesn't have to be, **[00:42:13]** because someone from Bratislava might not travel to a monastery, **[00:42:17]** and in Bratislava or other cities, **[00:42:26]** to give them money, and maybe giving them money **[00:42:29]** is probably the least or least significant thing, **[00:42:32]** but one thing is certain with the Roma, you need to give them some of your attention. **[00:42:39]** And that helps them, but it helps us many times more. **[00:42:44]** And precisely because we create relationships, **[00:42:49]** we train empathy, that's another part, **[00:42:52]** say from the E, the emotional part, **[00:42:55]** which interaction with artificial intelligence disrupts, **[00:42:59]** if we want to and probably will, and it's necessary, **[00:43:02]** that we use artificial intelligence. **[00:43:05]** While I am very negative about social networks, **[00:43:10]** I am definitely not negative about artificial intelligence as such. **[00:43:14]** It's an important thing, it's part of our life moving forward, **[00:43:18]** we just must not be blind and deaf to what it takes from us. **[00:43:24]** And when it takes something from us, we have to compensate somehow. **[00:43:29]** And this is the way we can compensate it. **[00:43:36]** I always found it interesting when we talk about a healthy lifestyle **[00:43:43]** and how people approach it, I often hear that, **[00:43:48]** I just got a ring here, **[00:43:51]** so I monitor my sleep, exercise, eat healthily, and all that, **[00:43:55]** but when we did similar slides in small groups, **[00:44:00]** only a very small percentage of people said they work on relationships. **[00:44:05]** That it's not even somewhere in the back of our minds. **[00:44:09]** And really, you taught me this, **[00:44:13]** that I go to lunch with people I simply don't know. **[00:44:17]** That if someone reaches out to me, I go have lunch, **[00:44:21]** coffee, or something with them just to learn more. **[00:44:24]** And the older we get, and this is very interesting to me, this observation, **[00:44:28]** we don't have time for new people. **[00:44:31]** Because I already have my own circle and I wonder why I should meet new people, **[00:44:35]** and it's kind of strange. **[00:44:38]** We don't really have in our calendars to call our parents **[00:44:42]** or to be here and there. **[00:44:45]** Because it's kind of strange that we should call our parents **[00:44:49]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:44:53]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:44:57]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:45:01]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:45:05]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:45:09]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:45:13]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:45:17]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:45:21]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:45:25]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:45:29]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:45:33]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:45:37]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:45:41]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:45:45]** or that we should call our parents or that we should call our parents **[00:45:50]** but also a study where social disconnection reversed many mental problems **[00:45:55]** but also a study where social disconnection reversed many mental problems **[00:45:59]** to their original healthy state. So there’s no doubt about that. **[00:46:03]** There’s a team of young people there. **[00:46:07]** For example, realize one thing: of course, brain neuroplasticity **[00:46:12]** For example, realize one thing: of course, brain neuroplasticity **[00:46:15]** exists even in older people, like me, let's say. **[00:46:19]** I can still learn something, I can still learn new things, **[00:46:23]** I can still learn something, I can still learn new things, **[00:46:28]** but neuroplasticity is greatest up to the age of 25. **[00:46:31]** but neuroplasticity is greatest up to the age of 25. **[00:46:35]** A completely different psychology and biology, that the most important are **[00:46:39]** A completely different psychology and biology, that the most important are **[00:46:42]** three years, even the first three years of life. So the first three years of life, **[00:46:45]** three years, even the first three years of life. So the first three years of life, **[00:46:48]** no, and no, if I said screens, mobiles, **[00:46:52]** if I said screens, mobiles, that's absolutely not true. **[00:46:55]** if I said screens, mobiles, that's absolutely not true. **[00:46:58]** And then of course there's a difference, like having a button phone, **[00:47:01]** And then of course there's a difference, like having a button phone, **[00:47:04]** how we have a phone to communicate, **[00:47:07]** to, let's say, call the child, **[00:47:10]** to, let's say, call the child, **[00:47:13]** or for the child to be able to call, that's one thing. **[00:47:16]** or for the child to be able to call, that's one thing. **[00:47:19]** They practically don't phone, it's like **[00:47:22]** They practically don't phone, it's like **[00:47:25]** history for them, they just chat **[00:47:28]** through various apps. **[00:47:31]** through various apps. **[00:47:34]** So that's actually what hinders normal relationships. **[00:47:37]** So that's actually what hinders normal relationships. **[00:47:40]** When you call someone and hear their voice, **[00:47:43]** it's different than when you text them **[00:47:46]** or use any other app. **[00:47:49]** So in this, at schools, **[00:47:52]** it obviously makes sense during class, **[00:47:55]** so the kids aren't mentally absent, **[00:47:58]** but it also obviously makes sense **[00:48:01]** during breaks. And during breaks it **[00:48:04]** maybe makes even more sense, **[00:48:07]** because everyone is buried in their own phone **[00:48:10]** and simply doesn't talk to each other. **[00:48:13]** They have no interaction anymore. **[00:48:16]** So these are also the aspects **[00:48:19]** that need to be addressed. **[00:48:24]** So I think even some effort **[00:48:28]** in the first grade, in some first, second, **[00:48:31]** third year of elementary school **[00:48:34]** Trying artificial intelligence seems way too early to me. **[00:48:37]** Because, of course, we don't have **[00:48:40]** any research yet, since it's too **[00:48:43]** close to the introduction of artificial intelligence. **[00:48:47]** But I would say my estimate is, **[00:48:51]** that once it calms down a bit, **[00:48:55]** then I would say building the foundations, **[00:49:00]** and it also relates to the use **[00:49:03]** of artificial intelligence for students, **[00:49:06]** and juniors at work. **[00:49:09]** Simply, we have to realize that every delegated **[00:49:17]** which we delegate to artificial intelligence, **[00:49:20]** actually deprives us of training, **[00:49:23]** which we could have had **[00:49:28]** for our skills, whether basic **[00:49:32]** human skills or some advanced skills, **[00:49:35]** which don't develop because we delegated them **[00:49:38]** to artificial intelligence. And we must realize **[00:49:41]** that we can't delegate everything. **[00:49:44]** It's like we realized **[00:49:47]** with physical movement or lack thereof, **[00:49:50]** that if we sit, we need to go running or exercise, **[00:49:53]** or we know we have to compensate. **[00:49:56]** This is the same with the mind. **[00:49:59]** If we delegate thinking, **[00:50:00]** then we have nothing left to think with, **[00:50:04]** because thinking degenerates, it simply doesn't develop, and we know **[00:50:08]** that if we learn a language but don't use it, **[00:50:12]** the neural connections stop activating and simply **[00:50:16]** fade, and we forget the language or most of it. **[00:50:21]** The same can happen with critical thinking, **[00:50:24]** meaning we can't train the nervous system in critical thinking **[00:50:32]** if the nervous system outsources thinking. **[00:50:40]** We have here one representative of the analog world, **[00:50:44]** dear Petra Sorat, in the front row. **[00:50:48]** And Petra, when we were last at Miletička, **[00:50:50]** I felt like the markets were dying out, **[00:50:55]** that it wasn't as lively there as before. **[00:50:58]** And we buy groceries, have food delivered home, **[00:51:04]** We communicate through those digital systems. **[00:51:08]** And now I'm thinking about whether we, **[00:51:11]** because we still want to correct the young ones, **[00:51:13]** but if we had less of the analog world, **[00:51:16]** whether we should really meet people face to face. **[00:51:20]** I read somewhere that when we shake hands, **[00:51:23]** you still do things, you even hug me sometimes, **[00:51:25]** and when we shake hands, oxytocin is released in our bodies. **[00:51:31]** There are studies, the longest study done over 85 years, **[00:51:35]** it was conducted and is still ongoing. **[00:51:37]** It was published in the book by Waldinger-Schultz called Good Life. **[00:51:41]** It was done at Harvard. **[00:51:43]** It clearly confirmed that people who have good relationships, **[00:51:48]** they don't have to be many, but good relationships, **[00:51:51]** live longer and live better quality lives. **[00:51:53]** And this applies to individuals as well as companies. **[00:51:57]** So Vládko, about the analog world, **[00:52:00]** maybe what to do there to create living communities, **[00:52:03]** to return to the marketplace and the fairs, **[00:52:07]** and to village sports, theater, communities. **[00:52:11]** We visit churches less since Covid, **[00:52:14]** through TV, Lux, and similar. So what do you think? **[00:52:19]** Well, that's exactly a big challenge, **[00:52:23]** because you mentioned one study, **[00:52:26]** I now see some other studies, **[00:52:31]** showing that the number of cafes in Italy **[00:52:40]** The number of bistros in France has dropped by the same amount. **[00:52:45]** We see that we are happy about statistics, **[00:52:48]** that alcohol consumption has decreased in Slovakia, **[00:52:52]** and also overall in Europe. **[00:52:55]** Well, that's positive, but what does it mean? **[00:52:59]** It means young people don't go out for beer or wine, **[00:53:04]** so they don't meet, they sit at home. **[00:53:06]** 32% of young men aged 18 to 24 in the USA **[00:53:12]** have never invited a girl on a date. **[00:53:15]** So we have a relationship crisis here. **[00:53:19]** And I think we have some evidence for it, **[00:53:23]** but intuitively, it's a matter of technology, **[00:53:28]** which has somehow surrounded us **[00:53:32]** and they locked us into these kinds of bubbles. **[00:53:39]** Well, it's a huge problem, a huge problem even for business. **[00:53:43]** Simply put, if the Boston Consulting studies **[00:53:50]** from last year clearly showed that only 5% of companies profit, **[00:53:56]** when they implemented artificial intelligence, the profit clearly comes from that implementation, **[00:54:02]** and when they analyzed it, those were companies **[00:54:04]** that invested one third into technology **[00:54:09]** and two thirds into people. **[00:54:12]** Because in this hybrid world of humans and artificial intelligence, **[00:54:18]** with every interaction, it gains, **[00:54:23]** because it learns, it trains, and the human loses. **[00:54:26]** Of course, it helps us, it writes a great email, **[00:54:29]** does analysis, creates images and so on, **[00:54:32]** but it always takes a bit from our human substrate. **[00:54:37]** And if we don't know that, if we don't realize it, **[00:54:42]** and if we don't systematically and thoughtfully compensate for it, **[00:54:46]** then we have a problem, we lose creativity, we lose innovativeness, **[00:54:50]** we lose self-confidence, we lose identity and various other things, **[00:54:55]** which then show up in normal, everyday life. **[00:54:59]** It shows up in that young men don't invite girls on dates, **[00:55:04]** but it also shows up in companies where people are stressed, **[00:55:08]** burned out, uncreative and basically incapable **[00:55:14]** of full work performance. **[00:55:17]** So, if we have a manager, owner, CEO, **[00:55:23]** who is a super enthusiast of artificial intelligence and now it gets worse, **[00:55:27]** the AI system does everything, **[00:55:30]** well, that might last maybe a year, maybe a year and a half, **[00:55:35]** but the symptoms will definitely appear. **[00:55:40]** And I already have some information from some colleagues in the USA, **[00:55:43]** that there employers are quite realistically aware of it **[00:55:49]** and already feel this impact. **[00:55:52]** I think this exactly confirms what I said about HANA-T. **[00:55:56]** Yes, we see it too, that basically when a company is split between home office **[00:56:00]** and some work remotely, it's just not good, **[00:56:06]** but we are entering the world of companies. **[00:56:10]** There are a lot of questions about what a leader should do **[00:56:15]** in this topic of loneliness to strengthen belonging. **[00:56:20]** How is it actually, when a person applies to a company, **[00:56:24]** the first question they get is how good they are with AI. **[00:56:30]** We encounter that basically everyone from middle management **[00:56:34]** They want people to automate, to robotize, **[00:56:38]** to basically do AI and so on. On the other hand, we see those burned-out people, **[00:56:42]** who are overwhelmed by a thousand changes and don't know which one to choose. **[00:56:47]** So how could companies help with that, and actually the environment of adults **[00:56:52]** is about belonging, especially in the company, because we spend **[00:56:55]** a lot, a lot of time there. **[00:56:58]** I'll add this note on how we can, that **[00:57:01]** or that companies should have the discipline of building relationships, **[00:57:06]** that this should be the case, because we don't need relationships **[00:57:09]** just for social comfort, which is the best, but **[00:57:14]** in this complex world, we also have to share knowledge. I see here, **[00:57:17]** people are innovating by creating ecosystems that have meaning **[00:57:22]** also in terms of knowledge. **[00:57:29]** Definitely, I don't know if it's a discipline, **[00:57:35]** but it should definitely be part **[00:57:39]** of life and any company, organization, family, school. **[00:57:44]** Building relationships is a key thing. After all, since, I don't know, **[00:57:50]** the first time we did some global overview, **[00:57:56]** well, global, North America and Europe about which skills employers look for. **[00:58:01]** We first published that in 2019, and surely such big surveys are done every year **[00:58:05]** or every other year. **[00:58:10]** And right at the top was teamwork ability. **[00:58:12]** So this teamwork ability is absolutely below some critical **[00:58:17]** threshold. So the whole life, let's say, at school, university, **[00:58:24]** mostly individual work, and currently individual work **[00:58:30]** with artificial intelligence makes absolutely no sense, **[00:58:34]** because what do we do? We evaluate some outputs but don't build any **[00:58:37]** skills at all. So this is, I would say, a primary thing **[00:58:42]** that must be there, but of course we also have to build capacities, **[00:58:47]** capacities of some, I would say, **[00:58:54]** I don't want to call it conflict, but some intellectual friction, **[00:59:00]** because that's what brings innovation and creativity, **[00:59:08]** if everyone has the same opinion. And when you communicate with artificial **[00:59:14]** intelligence, you have experience, you have the same opinion, it has the same **[00:59:19]** opinion as you, it observes you, reflects, and then returns the same **[00:59:23]** opinion slightly algorithmically shifted back, so there's no **[00:59:28]** friction, no intellectual friction, **[00:59:33]** or very little of it. You really have to be very strong to **[00:59:40]** somehow work through it to push it a bit, **[00:59:50]** a slightly different opinion. But this is very important, **[00:59:53]** that we also create spaces, let's say, in companies or schools, **[00:59:57]** where people will brainstorm, where **[01:00:00]** and have different opinions. **[01:00:02]** So these are all things that basically cost nothing. **[01:00:06]** Or a very good example is from the European Center **[01:00:13]** for weather forecasting. **[01:00:18]** The meteorological agency uses artificial intelligence extensively, **[01:00:25]** and of course, it's almost impossible without it, **[01:00:28]** because all those huge amounts of data, satellite images, and so on, **[01:00:33]** require artificial intelligence. **[01:00:35]** Artificial intelligence makes these forecasts, **[01:00:39]** but they also keep running their old models in parallel, **[01:00:44]** which they used before, and this way they both check, **[01:00:47]** whether artificial intelligence, or still artificial intelligence, **[01:00:51]** makes mistakes, but at the same time they train the mental capacities **[01:00:55]** of their people and employees **[01:00:58]** through these systems and by working on those old models. **[01:01:02]** So we have to do something similar at least during this time, **[01:01:08]** or until the time when we have 100% certainty **[01:01:11]** that artificial intelligence does not make mistakes. **[01:01:14]** And as long as we still need people, **[01:01:17]** maybe in five years the time will come when people won't have jobs, **[01:01:21]** I don't know, but at the moment it's like this, that we need them, **[01:01:25]** those people, and that's why we don't need them as zombies, **[01:01:28]** but we need them as fully-fledged people. **[01:01:31]** So that's why we have to compensate for that. **[01:01:35]** And if we don't do that, if we only have such **[01:01:39]** short-term KPIs like increasing productivity, **[01:01:43]** firing people, not hiring people, of course, **[01:01:47]** there can be some savings on labor, **[01:01:51]** but if we go too fast and too far, **[01:01:55]** there are already cases when it didn't work out. **[01:01:59]** We can get into trouble even within the companies themselves. **[01:02:07]** Someone even asked, I've heard it too, **[01:02:11]** brain fry, I don't know if you know the term, **[01:02:15]** when a person constantly checks AI outputs, **[01:02:19]** until they just go crazy, and I mean that in quotes, **[01:02:23]** but it just exhausts you terribly and it's exactly with that work, **[01:02:27]** that you have seven agents and now you're checking something. **[01:02:31]** It's not good, but I have a whole bunch of questions here **[01:02:35]** specifically about the European Union, yeah, and now I'll play **[01:02:39]** the devil's advocate about how the European Union **[01:02:43]** actually operates in this area, **[01:02:49]** how the AI Act might help, and whether **[01:02:55]** there is really serious work being done on this, **[01:02:59]** and whether you deal with this problem. **[01:03:03]** But which problem? **[01:03:05]** Loneliness and its correlation with AI **[01:03:09]** and regulation as such? **[01:03:13]** Well, the only regulation at the European Union level is the AI Act, **[01:03:19]** which creates a hierarchy of AI impacts **[01:03:25]** and deals only with the critical impacts. **[01:03:32]** Then there is the DSA, which focuses mainly **[01:03:45]** on the big platforms and large social worlds. **[01:03:52]** Of course, we also know GDPR, but that's an old thing. **[01:03:56]** So these are also, I would say, very stereotypical reactions, **[01:04:04]** that the European Union only regulates and does nothing else, **[01:04:08]** because I don't think the AI Act somehow magically or significantly **[01:04:15]** slows down artificial intelligence or its development. **[01:04:21]** But on the other hand, I was in Brussels just a month ago **[01:04:26]** and had a different presentation at another forum, where I was **[01:04:32]** very critical of the fact that the European Union does not invest **[01:04:36]** in artificial intelligence. That is the main problem. **[01:04:40]** It's not our regulation that's the problem; in fact, I think **[01:04:43]** we need even more regulation, **[01:04:46]** but at the same time, we need to invest. If we invest 10 to 15 times less **[01:04:51]** than the United States, then we shouldn't be surprised **[01:04:55]** that now, with great effort, we are moving away from Russian energy sources **[01:05:01]** and with a big, broad smile, we are running towards dependence **[01:05:09]** on American and Chinese AI platforms. **[01:05:15]** Practically, apart from one platform, Mistral, **[01:05:20]** we have nothing significant in Europe. **[01:05:24]** And of course, this is a matter of strategic sovereignty, **[01:05:29]** but also a matter of values, a matter of culture. **[01:05:32]** Because, as I said, identity changes **[01:05:38]** through interaction with artificial intelligence, and it changes us into its image. **[01:05:43]** And if American or Chinese values are embedded **[01:05:48]** in artificial intelligence, then we gradually, in small micro-steps, **[01:05:54]** drift towards those values. **[01:05:58]** So, in my opinion, that's one huge problem. **[01:06:02]** And I don't think we have that much time **[01:06:06]** to somehow solve this problem. **[01:06:10]** So I think the myth from Antropik a month, **[01:06:15]** or two months ago, that appeared, **[01:06:20]** could be a pretty strong wake-up call for us, **[01:06:25]** that we are already almost out of the main stream. **[01:06:31]** And then for innovation, of course, ultimately it means **[01:06:36]** that innovation will not be happening here. **[01:06:40]** These won't be innovations that, in my opinion, **[01:06:48]** pleasant small innovations of local significance. **[01:06:53]** So basically, we will drift into some kind of economy **[01:07:02]** that will be subordinated mainly to the American **[01:07:07]** and will be used by the American economy **[01:07:12]** and will not be fully competitive. **[01:07:16]** We talk a lot about competitiveness, but competitiveness **[01:07:20]** and defense without significant investments in artificial intelligence are impossible. **[01:07:25]** That's fiction. **[01:07:28]** Maybe now I'll respond to what you said, **[01:07:33]** that innovation is the development of competitiveness. **[01:07:35]** We often connect it with a technocratic view, **[01:07:39]** like GDP, cars produced per capita, and so on, **[01:07:44]** but when I studied mechanical engineering, **[01:07:50]** we learned differential equations, mathematical things, **[01:07:53]** and on the technical side, we knew how to solve many things, **[01:07:57]** but I realized I lacked psychological training, **[01:08:01]** I lacked some social skills, **[01:08:04]** which we didn't learn in engineering, **[01:08:06]** and I still see that as a huge handicap. **[01:08:09]** And I think nowadays it's even more necessary, **[01:08:12]** after all, innovation methodologies start with empathy, **[01:08:16]** that I have to notice a problem, **[01:08:18]** understand it, and then we can solve it. **[01:08:21]** And I still think that the technical solution, **[01:08:24]** I don't want to belittle math, physics, digital skills, **[01:08:28]** because artificial intelligence will only get stronger in that. **[01:08:32]** And what remains for us humans are those social skills. **[01:08:36]** And now, when we mock someone studying social work, **[01:08:41]** big companies, we belittle such soft skills, **[01:08:45]** often in technology, **[01:08:47]** but that the biggest innovations in the world **[01:08:50]** will mainly not be in Europe, especially in the social field. **[01:08:53]** That this is what awaits us, or actually our competitive advantage **[01:08:56]** will be precisely that we will be human. Humanity as such. **[01:08:59]** Isn't that the key? After all, from today **[01:09:02]** we are talking about loneliness here. **[01:09:04]** So shouldn't we, instead of focusing on digital skills **[01:09:07]** and that technocratic view, **[01:09:10]** pay attention to humanity? **[01:09:16]** Well, definitely yes. **[01:09:19]** But it doesn't exclude the other. **[01:09:26]** Just as probably the best investment in peace **[01:09:32]** is to have a well-equipped army. **[01:09:37]** So in this case, of course, **[01:09:42]** when I return to innovations, innovations are not so much **[01:09:45]** about technological progress, but mainly about the clash **[01:09:48]** of different perspectives. **[01:09:53]** And from this angle, diversity **[01:09:57]** that is created **[01:10:00]** is extremely important—diversity of different expert views, **[01:10:10]** different professional experiences, various technologies, **[01:10:16]** different scientific disciplines, and so on. **[01:10:20]** Of course, without soft skills we won't move forward, **[01:10:24]** without building and protecting humanity we won't get far. **[01:10:30]** Otherwise, we might end up in some kind of alcoholocracy, **[01:10:34]** but unfortunately, as we see in other areas, **[01:10:39]** that's simply not enough. **[01:10:42]** So if we don't want to be a colony, **[01:10:51]** we will have to invest very significantly, **[01:10:54]** if it can still be done in time. **[01:10:56]** I still believe, I'm an optimist, that it can be done, **[01:10:59]** because it can't be done without it. **[01:11:01]** Of course, this is B, or maybe this is A, **[01:11:04]** and the other is B, or it doesn't matter which is which, **[01:11:09]** without it we definitely won't get far. **[01:11:12]** Well, it seems to me that when I talk about innovations, **[01:11:15]** diversity really slows things down. **[01:11:20]** The fact that you have to clarify your opinion, **[01:11:23]** that you have to actively care about who someone else is. **[01:11:27]** We see that in the network. **[01:11:29]** We value diversity and I know how hard it is **[01:11:32]** and how easy it is to just bang the table and say, **[01:11:35]** this is the way we're going. **[01:11:37]** On the other hand, agreeing in a group of 20 different people **[01:11:40]** to really go here, or here, or here, or here, **[01:11:43]** listening to all opinions and making the best possible decision. **[01:11:46]** It's just slow. **[01:11:48]** You are an engineer. **[01:11:50]** We come into companies and see either engineers, **[01:11:56]** meaning people who have no soft skills at all, **[01:11:59]** and most engineers, when they are good engineers, **[01:12:01]** are promoted to leaders, **[01:12:03]** or now IT people, meaning programmers, **[01:12:06]** it's the same there, the company has grown, **[01:12:08]** and it exactly meets the point that when a company reaches **[01:12:11]** some limit, like a hundred or two hundred people, **[01:12:13]** and soft skills start to matter, **[01:12:16]** they don't perceive it at all, it's just their blind spot. **[01:12:19]** This is not addressed at all, **[01:12:21]** and they don't know what to do with it. **[01:12:24]** These are the things we encounter, **[01:12:27]** and it's exactly like that in technical fields, **[01:12:29]** which are booming and dominant now, **[01:12:31]** and people in those schools don't get exposed to soft skills at all. **[01:12:34]** But I would be cautious about one thing, **[01:12:37]** because in the last 10-20 years, **[01:12:40]** we have been worshipping two things: growth and speed. **[01:12:43]** And when we talk about speed, we all have China as a god. **[01:12:46]** Everyone talks about how amazing they are, **[01:12:49]** that they have the 996 model, working from 9 to 9, six days a week. **[01:12:52]** Who in this room runs such a model **[01:12:56]** in their company? Who plans that? **[01:12:59]** We want free time and want to focus **[01:13:02]** on ourselves, children, and so on. **[01:13:04]** Now the Chinese accelerate many things. **[01:13:06]** OK, but in radio, would you want someone to build **[01:13:09]** a nuclear power plant at 90% **[01:13:12]** or autonomous cars that crash every tenth time, **[01:13:17]** even if we wanted to enjoy food forever. **[01:13:20]** There are areas where speed doesn't make sense, **[01:13:23]** where slowness and thoroughness are important. **[01:13:26]** And here we would stop at the EU, **[01:13:29]** because the EU has many such deeptech sectors, **[01:13:32]** and I think we can't just push agility, **[01:13:35]** speed to the maximum at all costs, gladly, **[01:13:39]** there is a certain caution in place. **[01:13:42]** And the stance agrees with the AI Act, **[01:13:45]** that we are actually the first, and many experts, **[01:13:48]** in artificial intelligence actually praise Europe for, **[01:13:51]** being the first to notice this. **[01:13:54]** So we just want to say this, so we don't only admire **[01:13:57]** speed and growth, but maybe be a bit **[01:14:00]** more cautious in some matters. **[01:14:03]** Vladimir, how do you see it? **[01:14:06]** Of course, when we compare ourselves in some **[01:14:11]** environmental legislation, or in legislation, **[01:14:15]** or in protection, or in food safety, **[01:14:18]** in these areas, Europe is clearly the world leader. **[01:14:25]** We have the safest food in the world. **[01:14:28]** Not even the USA comes close. **[01:14:31]** So the average life expectancy in Europe is clearly higher, **[01:14:37]** say, than in China or the United States. **[01:14:40]** Exactly because of that, all this costs money. **[01:14:43]** That's the European social model. **[01:14:47]** The question is whether we want it or not. **[01:14:50]** That's up to all of us to decide. **[01:14:53]** But of course, I want it, I want **[01:14:58]** European values, European culture, and its diversity, **[01:15:02]** so we preserve it, so we have it. **[01:15:05]** But at the same time, I must repeat that it doesn't mean **[01:15:09]** we should be deaf and blind to what's happening. **[01:15:13]** And we shouldn't irresponsibly fall asleep, **[01:15:17]** at a crucial time. **[01:15:22]** Because if we look at what happened in Venezuela and Iran, **[01:15:26]** we see that they crossed the Rubicon. **[01:15:30]** Not just people, but I would almost say the American army. **[01:15:35]** And clearly in defense, **[01:15:40]** and now we are suffocating because we need to build defense, **[01:15:45]** We see it in Ukraine, we see it in Gaza, we see it in Iran, **[01:15:50]** we see it in various cities, simply the future of defense **[01:15:54]** without artificial intelligence is fiction. And we don't have that artificial intelligence **[01:16:00]** in Europe, so we don't have any system **[01:16:03]** that we could use for defense purposes. **[01:16:08]** So, let's say, in this area that we keep talking about, **[01:16:14]** it is a priority, yes, the priority is building defense. **[01:16:18]** Certainly, competitiveness is the ability. We see that simply every company **[01:16:22]** is moving into artificial intelligence, which can, and it is the way, **[01:16:27]** it is the path that will be very important. Building, let's say, **[01:16:32]** some very advanced forms similar to general artificial intelligence, **[01:16:39]** that is, as I said, the races and the battle that are happening, **[01:16:45]** and simply the world has changed from multipolar and is turning bipolar, **[01:16:51]** and so the one pole Europe is not, it is the United States and China. **[01:16:57]** This bothers me a bit that we don't reflect on it at all, we don't see it. **[01:17:04]** So I agree with all that and I am mainly some kind of promoter **[01:17:13]** of all these areas that concern, let's say, **[01:17:19]** humanity and the human foundation, but of course, **[01:17:28]** without the second part simply our economy will not work. **[01:17:34]** And then just building relationships probably won't help us at all, **[01:17:40]** because sooner or later very serious social problems can arise **[01:17:48]** in society into some two corners. **[01:17:52]** I think the last question is interesting here, too bad the person didn't sign it. **[01:17:58]** I have a heretical thought: what if people escape into the virtual world because **[01:18:04]** this one here is enough, and now there is this smiley, **[01:18:10]** for example, we know from Gallup that only two out of ten like their job, and so on. **[01:18:17]** Does that mean it's some kind of escape? **[01:18:22]** Yes, it's also a vicious circle, because the more complicated **[01:18:30]** or worse or with bigger problems society is, the more people will escape into some **[01:18:35]** virtual world and the worse society will become. **[01:18:38]** So society won't get better without us building it together. **[01:18:45]** So escaping into some virtual world will only make it worse and worse. **[01:18:53]** Of course, it will also make us worse and weaker. **[01:18:57]** So then, being weak in that society, we won't be able to make any change. **[01:19:03]** So that's a road to hell. **[01:19:07]** The opposite is needed, that we should take our civil rights into our own hands **[01:19:19]** and not be victims of all kinds of brainwashing. **[01:19:28]** And I think the matter of democracy and so-called deliberative democracy, **[01:19:34]** the matter of engaging people is the way forward and we want to live in some democratic values **[01:19:42]** based on society. So that is the way. **[01:19:45]** But of course, this is very tempting and might be a way. **[01:19:51]** Just like young people leave Slovakia because the situation in society is catastrophic. **[01:19:58]** But the more young people leave, **[01:20:00]** the worse the situation will become. **[01:20:04]** So yes, from an individual perspective, it might be a way, **[01:20:10]** but if we do that, it might harm Slovakia **[01:20:16]** in some way, and maybe that's not important from a global **[01:20:21]** or European perspective, but if we extrapolate it to the whole society, **[01:20:25]** if we keep escaping somewhere, then of course, **[01:20:30]** the society will deteriorate. So that's not really the way. **[01:20:37]** A great way would be to try to change the situation. **[01:20:41]** Even the situation, let's say, as it is in Slovakia, **[01:20:44]** but also the overall situation in society. **[01:20:46]** And that can't be done without us being active citizens. **[01:20:51]** I have a somewhat heretical thought, Hladko, that you don't see it, **[01:20:56]** that the mess in Slovakia is somewhat of a blessing, **[01:20:59]** because when there is corruption, anti-corruption organizations arise. **[01:21:05]** When there are homeless people, good shepherds emerge. **[01:21:08]** They help abused women, children. We gather around all kinds of vulnerable people. **[01:21:14]** Wherever the state fails, solidarity is mobilized, **[01:21:19]** or the good among people. **[01:21:21]** To some extent, the bad can be a blessing, **[01:21:24]** because it doesn't leave us so indifferent. **[01:21:27]** And I see that there is a huge desire and energy **[01:21:32]** to help, to establish various civic associations. **[01:21:36]** Now we are also completely passive. **[01:21:38]** When I was abroad, in California, **[01:21:41]** there the homeless cross the street and say, **[01:21:44]** let the state take care of them, after all, they pay quite high taxes. **[01:21:48]** But here I see, for example, a much greater degree **[01:21:52]** of any cohesion among people, I don't know how to call it, **[01:21:56]** but some desire to help. **[01:22:02]** So certainly, of course, the problems that sometimes exist **[01:22:07]** somehow encourage people, stimulate them. **[01:22:14]** I don't know exactly if it has been measured, what the strength is, **[01:22:19]** let's say, of civil society in Slovakia. **[01:22:23]** I don't know if that's not a bit too optimistic a view. **[01:22:29]** Or, although we have a few civic associations, **[01:22:33]** civic activities, I'm not quite sure **[01:22:37]** that we should be satisfied with foundations fighting corruption, **[01:22:44]** that someone is embezzling millions here and someone set up a foundation for us **[01:22:52]** and a charge against corruption, whether that is sufficient compensation, **[01:22:57]** I don't know. I probably wouldn't be completely satisfied with that. **[01:23:02]** I would actually be quite glad if those crooks, **[01:23:05]** who steal and embezzle money that could be used **[01:23:11]** for some important things in society, **[01:23:15]** for the collapsing healthcare system and various other things, **[01:23:19]** were in jail and the money went where it is supposed to go. **[01:23:31]** Maybe I would sacrifice the existence of some NGO, **[01:23:36]** which fights corruption if we fundamentally limited corruption in some way. **[01:23:40]** I don't think Denmark or Finland are much worse off, **[01:23:45]** even though corruption there is close to zero. **[01:23:49]** Friends, I'll stop here, **[01:23:54]** it's time to wrap up. **[01:23:58]** Maybe it's appropriate to say that within Red Button we believe **[01:24:02]** that companies are the real leverage point. **[01:24:07]** That means through companies it is possible to improve the society around us **[01:24:10]** and prosperity, because if there are good leaders and good companies, **[01:24:13]** they can influence many families. **[01:24:17]** That's exactly what we believe in. **[01:24:20]** I believe each of us can be that active link, **[01:24:23]** who starts improving relationships in their surroundings, **[01:24:26]** like Marcela, who shared her story at the beginning, **[01:24:29]** and suddenly here we all are, and today we'll have a super breakfast **[01:24:34]** and chat, which is very, very pleasant and nice. **[01:24:37]** And I assume this is not a one-time event, **[01:24:40]** so there will be many more things. **[01:24:44]** I'll switch to that slide now with some questions, **[01:24:47]** how you liked it today and if you had a word **[01:24:53]** that this breakfast evoked for you, that would be great. **[01:24:58]** Anyway, I want to thank Vladimír very much. **[01:25:01]** So Vladimír, thanks a lot for your input. **[01:25:07]** Of course, it would be better if you were here with us in person, **[01:25:12]** but this is the fast world of innovation, and we can respond. **[01:25:16]** So thanks Vladimír, thanks Jáno for co-moderating, thank you. **[01:25:20]** Well, thank you for the invitation and I'm sorry again, **[01:25:26]** that I can't be there physically. **[01:25:29]** So I might continue a bit more with our presentation afterwards. **[01:25:32]** If you want and Brain & Breakfast interests you, **[01:25:43]** So we already have several versions, like we have STV 1, **[01:25:48]** I don't know how you do it here, but we have a business breakfast, **[01:25:52]** so on June 11th with Michal Šraer, there will be a breakfast, **[01:25:56]** where we will respond to technology and new trends in technology. **[01:26:01]** On June 18th, we will welcome Tomáš Kolomazník and talk about, **[01:26:06]** how propaganda works and that it has been with us for centuries, **[01:26:11]** he is the author of a book and just released a new one, **[01:26:15]** Deceptions and Manipulations Across Centuries, so we will look at, **[01:26:19]** how it was here and how it is now amplified by social media. **[01:26:23]** Otherwise, if you need anything, just press the red button, **[01:26:27]** that's the red button. Many thanks to the spot, thanks to everyone involved, **[01:26:31]** and I believe we will meet soon for the second edition, **[01:26:35]** and we will all be here physically. Thank you for making the trip, **[01:26:38]** one more big thanks, take care, bye and see you soon. **[01:26:52]** And by the way, we are here, so we can continue performing at breakfasts and such. **[01:27:05]** www.arkance-systems.cz